THE TRENCHES

[Brandon494]

Rodgers again was at fault for several of his sacks. He was also at fault - again - in the first half for not getting the ball out faster. Two critical throws - the throw before the first FG - jones was open and Rodgers hesitated. Later, Rodgers had the ball knocked out. Jones was open across the deep middle - have to get that out.

Still, weak pass rush by D-line and depending on a washed up Clifton at LT was stupid. Woodson, Pickett, and Chillar isn't enough FA activity in five years. Vikings feasted on FA - Hutchinson, Favre, Leiber, Williams, and Allen are huge contributor to that team. Thompson needs more success in FA, especially if he wants to continuously keep the roster young with inexperienced draft picks. Experience has to come from somewhere.

You ever think maybe players just arent interested in coming to play for Green Bay? Only reason Woodson came here was because we were the only ones serious about giving him the money he wanted and at that time a lot of people thought we were taking a risk on him.

This isn't Madden 10, can't just make a offer and expect the player to want to come to GB. Also TT did try and go after Gonzalez until the Chiefs GM tried to big boy him at the last minute and request a 2nd rounder instead of a 3rd. Honestly I would have still traded the 2nd but I'm not the GM. Anyway I agree he does need to be more active, but I just don't think its as easy as you think getting players to come here.

[Smidgeon]

Rodgers again was at fault for several of his sacks. He was also at fault - again - in the first half for not getting the ball out faster. Two critical throws - the throw before the first FG - jones was open and Rodgers hesitated. Later, Rodgers had the ball knocked out. Jones was open across the deep middle - have to get that out.

Still, weak pass rush by D-line and depending on a washed up Clifton at LT was stupid. Woodson, Pickett, and Chillar isn't enough FA activity in five years. Vikings feasted on FA - Hutchinson, Favre, Leiber, Williams, and Allen are huge contributor to that team. Thompson needs more success in FA, especially if he wants to continuously keep the roster young with inexperienced draft picks. Experience has to come from somewhere.

You ever think maybe players just arent interested in coming to play for Green Bay? Only reason Woodson came here was because we were the only ones serious about giving him the money he wanted and at that time a lot of people thought we were taking a risk on him.

This isn't Madden 10, can't just make a offer and expect the player to want to come to GB. Also TT did try and go after Gonzalez until the Chiefs GM tried to big boy him at the last minute and request a 2nd rounder instead of a 3rd. Honestly I would have still traded the 2nd but I'm not the GM. Anyway I agree he does need to be more active, but I just don't think its as easy as you think getting players to come here.

Didn't Warren Sapp say when he left Tampa that if Favre had called him, he would have been willing to go to GB? Maybe all we need is to get AR on the phone...

[Bretsky]

Rodgers again was at fault for several of his sacks. He was also at fault - again - in the first half for not getting the ball out faster. Two critical throws - the throw before the first FG - jones was open and Rodgers hesitated. Later, Rodgers had the ball knocked out. Jones was open across the deep middle - have to get that out.

Still, weak pass rush by D-line and depending on a washed up Clifton at LT was stupid. Woodson, Pickett, and Chillar isn't enough FA activity in five years. Vikings feasted on FA - Hutchinson, Favre, Leiber, Williams, and Allen are huge contributor to that team. Thompson needs more success in FA, especially if he wants to continuously keep the roster young with inexperienced draft picks. Experience has to come from somewhere.

You ever think maybe players just arent interested in coming to play for Green Bay? Only reason Woodson came here was because we were the only ones serious about giving him the money he wanted and at that time a lot of people thought we were taking a risk on him.

This isn't Madden 10, can't just make a offer and expect the player to want to come to GB. Also TT did try and go after Gonzalez until the Chiefs GM tried to big boy him at the last minute and request a 2nd rounder instead of a 3rd. Honestly I would have still traded the 2nd but I'm not the GM. Anyway I agree he does need to be more active, but I just don't think its as easy as you think getting players to come here.

The two most convenient arguments against Free Agency are.....there is nobody out there better..........and maybe nobody wants to come

I don't see us making much of an effort.

This is a results game

How much longer should fans tolerate a shitty offensive line ?

[retailguy]

I guess indefinitely if we can keep blaming the problems on Rodgers.

This posturing is stupid.... just stupid.

too many new guys on the line. too little experience. it takes time, but they need someone to learn from...

[mraynrand]

I guess indefinitely if we can keep blaming the problems on Rodgers.

This posturing is stupid.... just stupid.

too many new guys on the line. too little experience. it takes time, but they need someone to learn from...

Maybe you should be talking to McCarthy. He is blaming some of the problems on Rodgers. Specifically, I believe he attributed up to 6 sacks in Minnesota to Rodgers holding the ball too long. Don't know what he thinks about yesterday's game, but I saw Rodgers screw up at least twice on critical plays. Maybe if you won't listen to us, you'll listen to Stubby.

[Brandon494]

Rodgers again was at fault for several of his sacks. He was also at fault - again - in the first half for not getting the ball out faster. Two critical throws - the throw before the first FG - jones was open and Rodgers hesitated. Later, Rodgers had the ball knocked out. Jones was open across the deep middle - have to get that out.

Still, weak pass rush by D-line and depending on a washed up Clifton at LT was stupid. Woodson, Pickett, and Chillar isn't enough FA activity in five years. Vikings feasted on FA - Hutchinson, Favre, Leiber, Williams, and Allen are huge contributor to that team. Thompson needs more success in FA, especially if he wants to continuously keep the roster young with inexperienced draft picks. Experience has to come from somewhere.

You ever think maybe players just arent interested in coming to play for Green Bay? Only reason Woodson came here was because we were the only ones serious about giving him the money he wanted and at that time a lot of people thought we were taking a risk on him.

This isn't Madden 10, can't just make a offer and expect the player to want to come to GB. Also TT did try and go after Gonzalez until the Chiefs GM tried to big boy him at the last minute and request a 2nd rounder instead of a 3rd. Honestly I would have still traded the 2nd but I'm not the GM. Anyway I agree he does need to be more active, but I just don't think its as easy as you think getting players to come here.

Didn't Warren Sapp say when he left Tampa that if Favre had called him, he would have been willing to go to GB? Maybe all we need is to get AR on the phone...

I never heard that but to answer that question would we even want Sapp? I don't remember him being all that great when he left TB. Also don't think Chad Clifton would have be happy about that. Also Mike Sherman was still the GM and I remember him and Sapp having words after that game and don't really think that would have happen.

[retailguy]

I guess indefinitely if we can keep blaming the problems on Rodgers.

This posturing is stupid.... just stupid.

too many new guys on the line. too little experience. it takes time, but they need someone to learn from...

Maybe you should be talking to McCarthy. He is blaming some of the problems on Rodgers. Specifically, I believe he attributed up to 6 sacks in Minnesota to Rodgers holding the ball too long. Don't know what he thinks about yesterday's game, but I saw Rodgers screw up at least twice on critical plays. Maybe if you won't listen to us, you'll listen to Stubby.

the odds are not high. I like stubby about as much as you do.

I'm watching rodgers too. I see the issues, but I also see him looking around... for the pressure. this holding the ball too long stuff is crap. these things go away when rodgers has confidence in his line.

[Smidgeon]

Rodgers again was at fault for several of his sacks. He was also at fault - again - in the first half for not getting the ball out faster. Two critical throws - the throw before the first FG - jones was open and Rodgers hesitated. Later, Rodgers had the ball knocked out. Jones was open across the deep middle - have to get that out.

Still, weak pass rush by D-line and depending on a washed up Clifton at LT was stupid. Woodson, Pickett, and Chillar isn't enough FA activity in five years. Vikings feasted on FA - Hutchinson, Favre, Leiber, Williams, and Allen are huge contributor to that team. Thompson needs more success in FA, especially if he wants to continuously keep the roster young with inexperienced draft picks. Experience has to come from somewhere.

You ever think maybe players just arent interested in coming to play for Green Bay? Only reason Woodson came here was because we were the only ones serious about giving him the money he wanted and at that time a lot of people thought we were taking a risk on him.

This isn't Madden 10, can't just make a offer and expect the player to want to come to GB. Also TT did try and go after Gonzalez until the Chiefs GM tried to big boy him at the last minute and request a 2nd rounder instead of a 3rd. Honestly I would have still traded the 2nd but I'm not the GM. Anyway I agree he does need to be more active, but I just don't think its as easy as you think getting players to come here.

Didn't Warren Sapp say when he left Tampa that if Favre had called him, he would have been willing to go to GB? Maybe all we need is to get AR on the phone...

I never heard that but to answer that question would we even want Sapp? I don't remember him being all that great when he left TB. Also don't think Chad Clifton would have be happy about that. Also Mike Sherman was still the GM and I remember him and Sapp having words after that game and don't really think that would have happen.

I don't think that GB wanted Sapp. He was actually pretty good on the Raider DL. I just remember something about him being asked if he had considered GB. It was just a speculation question. And true to Sapp's character, he answered honestly. It wasn't because it was anything close to likely, he was just stating what it would have taken to get him to GB.

[mraynrand]

I guess indefinitely if we can keep blaming the problems on Rodgers.

This posturing is stupid.... just stupid.

too many new guys on the line. too little experience. it takes time, but they need someone to learn from...

Maybe you should be talking to McCarthy. He is blaming some of the problems on Rodgers. Specifically, I believe he attributed up to 6 sacks in Minnesota to Rodgers holding the ball too long. Don't know what he thinks about yesterday's game, but I saw Rodgers screw up at least twice on critical plays. Maybe if you won't listen to us, you'll listen to Stubby.

the odds are not high. I like stubby about as much as you do.

I'm watching rodgers too. I see the issues, but I also see him looking around... for the pressure. this holding the ball too long stuff is crap. these things go away when rodgers has confidence in his line.

I like Stubby. But he is stubborn. Talk to him about Rodgers and the line. I am bored discussing this with you.

[Deputy Nutz]

I honestly think that the interior core of Colledge, Spitz, and Sitton are good young football players on the rise. Colledge has been banged up this year with leg injuries, he doesn't like to come out of the game, he has also been moved around this season. Colledge in the second half of last year was our best offensive linemen.

The Packers were bound to run into problems at left and right tackle with the physical breakdowns of both Tausch and Clifton. Good players but are now past there prime. They might give the Packer a couple of good games down the stretch of the season but neither will be back next season. What to do? The Packers are going to spend either a couple of high draft picks, or sign someone, whether it is a stop gap or a starting quality offensive tackle. Barbre is not improving fast enough to have any confidence in, and Lang is a good kid, but I am not blown away by his technique or skill level.

I think the article was a bit poor. Jenkins was never a "great" defensive end. He was ok, but injured a bit too often.

Pickett eats up blockers, he is a valuable asset that any team would be honored to have. He isn't a pass rusher, not many NT in this league can be labeled as a pass rusher.

Jolly is ok another good run stopper and if he was positioned as a defensive tackle he would be considered a player that has enough pass rushing skill to make him a double threat player.

I think Thompson has put together a pretty decent defensive line. Especially when it comes to stopping the run. I don't expect these three to have double digit sack totals.

I do expect someone on this team to have double digit sack totals by the end of the year, and if they don't this defense can be labeled as a failure in year one of Dom Capers Defensive Coordinator of the Green Bay Packers.

[Smidgeon]

I do expect someone on this team to have double digit totals by the end of the year, and if they don't this defense can be labeled as a failure in year one of Dom Capers Defensive Coordinator of the Green Bay Packers.

Either that or next year, when a whole year of learning and seeing it done has been completed, that you have at least one in double digits and several others close.

[Brandon494]

I honestly think that the interior core of Colledge, Spitz, and Sitton are good young football players on the rise. Colledge has been banged up this year with leg injuries, he doesn't like to come out of the game, he has also been moved around this season. Colledge in the second half of last year was our best offensive linemen.

The Packers were bound to run into problems at left and right tackle with the physical breakdowns of both Tausch and Clifton. Good players but are now past there prime. They might give the Packer a couple of good games down the stretch of the season but neither will be back next season. What to do? The Packers are going to spend either a couple of high draft picks, or sign someone, whether it is a stop gap or a starting quality offensive tackle. Barbre is not improving fast enough to have any confidence in, and Lang is a good kid, but I am not blown away by his technique or skill level.

I think the article was a bit poor. Jenkins was never a "great" defensive end. He was ok, but injured a bit too often.

Pickett eats up blockers, he is a valuable asset that any team would be honored to have. He isn't a pass rusher, not many NT in this league can be labeled as a pass rusher.

Jolly is ok another good run stopper and if he was positioned as a defensive tackle he would be considered a player that has enough pass rushing skill to make him a double threat player.

I think Thompson has put together a pretty decent defensive line. Especially when it comes to stopping the run. I don't expect these three to have double digit sack totals.

I do expect someone on this team to have double digit sack totals by the end of the year, and if they don't this defense can be labeled as a failure in year one of Dom Capers Defensive Coordinator of the Green Bay Packers.

I agree I think our interior core is pretty solid. I hope we sign/trade/draft a legit LT and I think Lang is our future RT. Also think we should go after a new O-line coach during the offseason.

On the defensive side of the ball I don't think we are that bad off at all. Jenkins and Jolly are perfect 3-4 DEs and Pickett is holding up at the nose tackle. Raji showed pontenial early on but not so much during the regular season. He is only a rookie though learning a completely new defense with everyone else.

[rbaloha1]

IMO the o-line has talent. Lang is a lt. A new o-line coach is in order. Maybe scrapping the zone blocking scheme is in order or rehiring Jags to properly teach it.

If Jags is unavailable a new running scheme must be utilized.

[sharpe1027]

My mistake about Allen. It does fall under pro-player personnel and not the draft however, which is where Thompson struggles.

The general issue is shoring up the trenches. Do you wait 1,2, or more years for draft picks to gel together or do you supplement with free agency/trade? I think you have to do both. Thompson, knowing Tauscher was finished, and knowing Clifton was at the bottom of his tank, could have reasoned he needed to do something to guarantee the O-line. Unless he is playing for next year or the year after, expecting his draft picks to come along by then. (edit: I don't agree that there is enough experience. Sitton and Barbre? Not enough)

I will say that they did sign a OLineman that started several games last year...he didn't make the team.

I guess we could have went after O. Pace? He costs three times as much and is just as bad as anything we have.

Here's a list of unrestricted FA OT from this past offseason (we signed one of them, can you find him?):

Stacy Andrews
Khalif Barnes
Vernon Carey
Kirk Chambers
Damane Duckett
Jason Fabini
George Foster
Wayne Gandy
Adam Goldberg
Brandon Gorin
Jordan Gross
Kwame Harris
Jonas Jennings
Fred Miller
Frank Omiyale
Orlando Pace
Jon Runyan
Ephraim Salaam
Kevin Shaffer
John St. Clair
Jonathan Stinchcomb
Barry Stokes
Mark Tauscher
Tra Thomas
Ray Willis
Floyd Womack
Daniel Loper

[mraynrand]

My mistake about Allen. It does fall under pro-player personnel and not the draft however, which is where Thompson struggles.

The general issue is shoring up the trenches. Do you wait 1,2, or more years for draft picks to gel together or do you supplement with free agency/trade? I think you have to do both. Thompson, knowing Tauscher was finished, and knowing Clifton was at the bottom of his tank, could have reasoned he needed to do something to guarantee the O-line. Unless he is playing for next year or the year after, expecting his draft picks to come along by then. (edit: I don't agree that there is enough experience. Sitton and Barbre? Not enough)

I will say that they did sign a OLineman that started several games last year...he didn't make the team.

I guess we could have went after O. Pace? He costs three times as much and is just as bad as anything we have.

Here's a list of unrestricted FA OT from this past offseason (we signed one of them, can you find him?):

Stacy Andrews
Khalif Barnes
Vernon Carey
Kirk Chambers
Damane Duckett
Jason Fabini
George Foster
Wayne Gandy
Adam Goldberg
Brandon Gorin
Jordan Gross
Kwame Harris
Jonas Jennings
Fred Miller
Frank Omiyale
Orlando Pace
Jon Runyan
Ephraim Salaam
Kevin Shaffer
John St. Clair
Jonathan Stinchcomb
Barry Stokes
Mark Tauscher
Tra Thomas
Ray Willis
Floyd Womack
Daniel Loper

And?