THE TRENCHES

[sharpe1027]

My mistake about Allen. It does fall under pro-player personnel and not the draft however, which is where Thompson struggles.

The general issue is shoring up the trenches. Do you wait 1,2, or more years for draft picks to gel together or do you supplement with free agency/trade? I think you have to do both. Thompson, knowing Tauscher was finished, and knowing Clifton was at the bottom of his tank, could have reasoned he needed to do something to guarantee the O-line. Unless he is playing for next year or the year after, expecting his draft picks to come along by then. (edit: I don't agree that there is enough experience. Sitton and Barbre? Not enough)

I will say that they did sign a OLineman that started several games last year...he didn't make the team.

I guess we could have went after O. Pace? He costs three times as much and is just as bad as anything we have.

Here's a list of unrestricted FA OT from this past offseason (we signed one of them, can you find him?):

Stacy Andrews
Khalif Barnes
Vernon Carey
Kirk Chambers
Damane Duckett
Jason Fabini
George Foster
Wayne Gandy
Adam Goldberg
Brandon Gorin
Jordan Gross
Kwame Harris
Jonas Jennings
Fred Miller
Frank Omiyale
Orlando Pace
Jon Runyan
Ephraim Salaam
Kevin Shaffer
John St. Clair
Jonathan Stinchcomb
Barry Stokes
Mark Tauscher
Tra Thomas
Ray Willis
Floyd Womack
Daniel Loper

And?

Or?

[mmmdk]

IMO the o-line has talent. Lang is a lt. A new o-line coach is in order. Maybe scrapping the zone blocking scheme is in order or rehiring Jags to properly teach it.

If Jags is unavailable a new running scheme must be utilized.

The change to zone blocking was not tough for Mark to learn. Tauscher started all 16 regular season games in 2007 and was stellar. If Tausch has ANYTHING left in the tank; he's way better than Barberella.

Tauscher even gave an interview on packers.com that year which schooled the media/fans on ZBS.

The Packer OL talent is mediocre, can't zone block or protect the passer. Dumb too.

[mmmdk]

I guess indefinitely if we can keep blaming the problems on Rodgers.

This posturing is stupid.... just stupid.

too many new guys on the line. too little experience. it takes time, but they need someone to learn from...

Yup!

Rodgers was sacked only 34 times last season; 31 already this season and on pace for 71.

Favre was sacked more than 30 times, 8 out of his first 10 seasons in his first starting seasons; when Favre still could run. An avg. of 32,1 sacks per season and actually was sacked 40 times in SB win season.

Furthermore, Favre has been sacked 3 times a game this season as a Viking...oh, sans the games vs the "one trick pony" Packer defense. Packers D players are, overall, overrated the last few seasons and beyond - even in 2007. We love our guys but suck at evaluating them. The results speak for themselves though. We have, apparently, forgotten was a great defense is like as it has been abscent since 1996.

Look at Pats, Steelers, Ravens, Giants, current Minnesota D plus others the last decade...if you REALLY want to know what a great D looks like.

[sharpe1027]

I guess indefinitely if we can keep blaming the problems on Rodgers.

This posturing is stupid.... just stupid.

too many new guys on the line. too little experience. it takes time, but they need someone to learn from...

Yup!

Rodgers was sacked only 34 times last season; 31 already this season and on pace for 71.

Favre was sacked more than 30 times, 8 out of his first 10 seasons in his first starting seasons; when Favre still could run. An avg. of 32,1 sacks per season and actually was sacked 40 times in SB win season.

Furthermore, Favre has been sacked 3 times a game this season as a Viking...oh, sans the games vs the "one trick pony" Packer defense. Packers D players are, overall, overrated the last few seasons and beyond - even in 2007. We love our guys but suck at evaluating them. The results speak for themselves though. We have, apparently, forgotten was a great defense is like as it has been abscent since 1996.

Look at Pats, Steelers, Ravens, Giants, current Minnesota D plus others the last decade...if you REALLY want to know what a great D looks like.

IDK about over-rating our D. I think we all agree our D was horrid last year. I think most of us just assumed that if it was at least average we would be taking a HUGE step forward. I'd say that they are at least average.

[denverYooper]

I guess indefinitely if we can keep blaming the problems on Rodgers.

This posturing is stupid.... just stupid.

too many new guys on the line. too little experience. it takes time, but they need someone to learn from...

Yup!

Rodgers was sacked only 34 times last season; 31 already this season and on pace for 71.

Favre was sacked more than 30 times, 8 out of his first 10 seasons in his first starting seasons; when Favre still could run. An avg. of 32,1 sacks per season and actually was sacked 40 times in SB win season.

Furthermore, Favre has been sacked 3 times a game this season as a Viking...oh, sans the games vs the "one trick pony" Packer defense. Packers D players are, overall, overrated the last few seasons and beyond - even in 2007. We love our guys but suck at evaluating them. The results speak for themselves though. We have, apparently, forgotten was a great defense is like as it has been abscent since 1996.

Look at Pats, Steelers, Ravens, Giants, current Minnesota D plus others the last decade...if you REALLY want to know what a great D looks like.

IDK about over-rating our D. I think we all agree our D was horrid last year. I think most of us just assumed that if it was at least average we would be taking a HUGE step forward. I'd say that they are at least average.

I remember that seeming to be the popular sentiment as well.

[Smidgeon]

IDK about over-rating our D. I think we all agree our D was horrid last year. I think most of us just assumed that if it was at least average we would be taking a HUGE step forward. I'd say that they are at least average.

I don't think our D is overranked. I would say we're just not used to seeing a strong run defense and a weaker pass defense. We're used to people running us over and not being able to pass on us. Right now that seems to be reversed. Our run D is good and our pass D is a little less good but still good.

Waldo wrote a great post about why our run D is good in another thread.

[sharpe1027]

I don't think our D is overranked. I would say we're just not used to seeing a strong run defense and a weaker pass defense. We're used to people running us over and not being able to pass on us. Right now that seems to be reversed. Our run D is good and our pass D is a little less good but still good.

Waldo wrote a great post about why our run D is good in another thread.

Yeah, but I think that our pass defense looked good before partly because, all things being equal, pretty much every team would rather run the ball than pass. Teams ran all over us and thus our pass-defense gave up less yards. Now that they can't run as easily, they are forced to pass more, which means we give up more yards passing.

IMO, it is a positive step forward, but the next critical thing is to start getting some damn QB pressures.

[Smidgeon]

I don't think our D is overranked. I would say we're just not used to seeing a strong run defense and a weaker pass defense. We're used to people running us over and not being able to pass on us. Right now that seems to be reversed. Our run D is good and our pass D is a little less good but still good.

Waldo wrote a great post about why our run D is good in another thread.

Yeah, but I think that our pass defense looked good before partly because, all things being equal, pretty much every team would rather run the ball than pass. Teams ran all over us and thus our pass-defense gave up less yards. Now that they can't run as easily, they are forced to pass more, which means we give up more yards passing.

IMO, it is a positive step forward, but the next critical thing is to start getting some damn QB pressures.

Well, our pass D also looked good becuase of all the interceptions which seem to be down this year. Don't know that for a fact, it just seems that way.

Agreed on the "damn QB pressures" being the next step. I think that's the only thing we're really missing on this D. I like everything else. Once we start getting to the QB, I think the other pieces will start looking way better. I like the DL, the LB (for the most part), the CBs and the S (for the most part). I think it will get better, but someone besides Matthews has to start getting home.

[sharpe1027]

Well, our pass D also looked good becuase of all the interceptions which seem to be down this year. Don't know that for a fact, it just seems that way.

Agreed on the "damn QB pressures" being the next step. I think that's the only thing we're really missing on this D. I like everything else. Once we start getting to the QB, I think the other pieces will start looking way better. I like the DL, the LB (for the most part), the CBs and the S (for the most part). I think it will get better, but someone besides Matthews has to start getting home.

Whatever happened Jeremy Thompson? He was supposed to have all the physical tools to be a good pass-rusher...must be all "potential" if he can't even make it in for situational downs?

[mraynrand]

Well, our pass D also looked good becuase of all the interceptions which seem to be down this year. Don't know that for a fact, it just seems that way.

Agreed on the "damn QB pressures" being the next step. I think that's the only thing we're really missing on this D. I like everything else. Once we start getting to the QB, I think the other pieces will start looking way better. I like the DL, the LB (for the most part), the CBs and the S (for the most part). I think it will get better, but someone besides Matthews has to start getting home.

Whatever happened Jeremy Thompson? He was supposed to have all the physical tools to be a good pass-rusher...must be all "potential" if he can't even make it in for situational downs?

Look like Tarzan play like Jane.

[Smidgeon]

Well, our pass D also looked good becuase of all the interceptions which seem to be down this year. Don't know that for a fact, it just seems that way.

Agreed on the "damn QB pressures" being the next step. I think that's the only thing we're really missing on this D. I like everything else. Once we start getting to the QB, I think the other pieces will start looking way better. I like the DL, the LB (for the most part), the CBs and the S (for the most part). I think it will get better, but someone besides Matthews has to start getting home.

Whatever happened Jeremy Thompson? He was supposed to have all the physical tools to be a good pass-rusher...must be all "potential" if he can't even make it in for situational downs?

I think he's been on the inactive list most of the games. What I was hearing in the preseason was that he just wasn't physical enough. I think that's the big thing: he has the tools, he just doesn't know how to use them. When the pads went on, he disappeared. (Of course, the hamstring injury helped there too.) He was said to have (I think) the most fluid hips of all the OLBs. He might have the "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" syndrome, but it's too early to write him off. I want to see him with another year before I start waiting for him to be replaced.

[Bretsky]

Well, our pass D also looked good becuase of all the interceptions which seem to be down this year. Don't know that for a fact, it just seems that way.

Agreed on the "damn QB pressures" being the next step. I think that's the only thing we're really missing on this D. I like everything else. Once we start getting to the QB, I think the other pieces will start looking way better. I like the DL, the LB (for the most part), the CBs and the S (for the most part). I think it will get better, but someone besides Matthews has to start getting home.

Whatever happened Jeremy Thompson? He was supposed to have all the physical tools to be a good pass-rusher...must be all "potential" if he can't even make it in for situational downs?

Overhyped Sieve this year

looks great in shorts but once you put the pads on and take on a blocker he disappears

[mmmdk]

IDK about over-rating our D. I think we all agree our D was horrid last year. I think most of us just assumed that if it was at least average we would be taking a HUGE step forward. I'd say that they are at least average.

I don't think our D is overranked. I would say we're just not used to seeing a strong run defense and a weaker pass defense. We're used to people running us over and not being able to pass on us. Right now that seems to be reversed. Our run D is good and our pass D is a little less good but still good.

Waldo wrote a great post about why our run D is good in another thread.

12 sacks in 7 games? Packers D give up big plays vs good teams - not just this season. Lions, Rams & Browns - c'mon, these assclowns can be clubbed by NCAA teams. Now the Bucs? Soon Packers will have the # 1 Defense...just like in 1996

[Smidgeon]

IDK about over-rating our D. I think we all agree our D was horrid last year. I think most of us just assumed that if it was at least average we would be taking a HUGE step forward. I'd say that they are at least average.

I don't think our D is overranked. I would say we're just not used to seeing a strong run defense and a weaker pass defense. We're used to people running us over and not being able to pass on us. Right now that seems to be reversed. Our run D is good and our pass D is a little less good but still good.

Waldo wrote a great post about why our run D is good in another thread.

12 sacks in 7 games? Packers D give up big plays vs good teams - not just this season. Lions, Rams & Browns - c'mon, these assclowns can be clubbed by NCAA teams. Now the Bucs? Soon Packers will have the # 1 Defense...just like in 1996

The 12 sacks can be attributed to the weaker pass defense as opposed to the stronger run defense. I am optimistic that the D will start getting home a little more frequently as the year progresses.

[rbaloha1]

The D has only been dominant against weak offenses.