Special Teams kind of Special

[Bretsky]

I think he's saying he'd rather have Hunter Smith and his 1.5 yards less per kick.

so would I

Why? Washington is giving up 5.8 per return and the Packers are giving up over 13 per. Maybe some of that is on the punter but the coverage teams suck, punt and kickoff. Have for quite a few consecutive seasons.

Why....ah...cause I think he's a better punter. That's about it. Plus, it'd be neat to see TTT win a competition for a free agent once as well. I suppose he won the battle for Pickett a few years back.

[bobblehead]

I get that patler, but my bigger concern is the WAY his kicks look. Some kickes boot from the hash, the ball takes off and then straightens out....funky like, but when crosby kicks it is dead nuts straight on. If the kick is from one hash he has to try to squeek it in that post to make it, if he pushes or pulls it, it continues to fade way too much and he pretty much misses every time outside of 45 this season.

Statistically he matches up ok, but he missed 2 game winners last year and I can't quantify this, but I just don't "like" his kicking. I feel like is almost definately missing from 50+ and for a guy with a mountain of leg he should be better on long ones.

I guess we just disagree. I basically like the way Crosby kicks. Heck, he almost made the 69 yard attempt last year, in Green Bay on Dec. 28, game temp. at 22 degrees and a fairly good cross wind. As I recall, it was dead center, just a little short. Very few guys in the league would have had a shot at that.

This year he has hit from 45, 46, 48 and 52.
He has missed from 49, 51, 55 and 55.
50% on kicks over 45 yards. I like that he kicks a straighter ball. Once he figures out the angle on the real long ones, he should be great at it because he kicks a straight ball, and has less variation from kick to kick.


He has plenty of leg for the longest kicks they ever will try, he just doesn't always control it well enough yet. That's not surprising. A lot of young kickers struggle on the long ones, and many coaches hesitate to even try 50+ yard attempts for that reason. It took Longwell half of his career before he learned to kick the long ones, and now he is very good at it. In his first six seasons, Longwell was just 6/13 on kicks over 50 yards. Crosby is at 7/15 after just two and a half seasons.

I think Crosby is good right now, and could end up being one of the best in the league. He needs a little more seasoning.

Well, I hope you are right. After he missed the 2 game winners last year I soured on him and I probably view him with an agenda now. 50% from 45+ is solid, and like I said, I can't quantify it. The numbers overall are good, and hopefully he will change my feelings. I just hope it happens fast.

[bobblehead]

Another thing that goes un noticed is the fact that TED THOMPSON, and no one else is to blame, has not found a punter worth 2 shits since he's been here.

Problem is, you can't make one out of thin air. There wasn't one when he came, he has tried a lot of different ones, and still hasn't found one. Sure, they likely would have been better with Jon Ryan, but he certainly wasn't and isn't anything special as a punter. There are a lot of punters around that really aren't very good. With punters, supply doesn't meet demand. Almost like QBs, a few really good ones, some OK ones and a bunch taking up a spot until the team finds someone better.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/52221267.html

...your point????

I read the article. His point is that Green Bay offered him more money and years than any other team and TT screwed up because he signed a veterans minimum one year contract with the skins.....Its a really bad point.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

we just disagree.

Dave Mason - circa 1970

A bit off. that song came out in the late 70s...maybe 77 or 78.

Ty has INCREDIBLE memory for AM GOLD!!!

Don't get him started on Al Stewart, John Stewart, Firefall, Player, Leo Sayer, Orleans, England Dan and John Ford Coley, Walter Eagan, Randy Van Warmer, etc.!

[mraynrand]

I get that patler, but my bigger concern is the WAY his kicks look. Some kickes boot from the hash, the ball takes off and then straightens out....funky like, but when crosby kicks it is dead nuts straight on. If the kick is from one hash he has to try to squeek it in that post to make it, if he pushes or pulls it, it continues to fade way too much and he pretty much misses every time outside of 45 this season.

Statistically he matches up ok, but he missed 2 game winners last year and I can't quantify this, but I just don't "like" his kicking. I feel like is almost definately missing from 50+ and for a guy with a mountain of leg he should be better on long ones.

I guess we just disagree. I basically like the way Crosby kicks. Heck, he almost made the 69 yard attempt last year, in Green Bay on Dec. 28, game temp. at 22 degrees and a fairly good cross wind. As I recall, it was dead center, just a little short. Very few guys in the league would have had a shot at that.

This year he has hit from 45, 46, 48 and 52.
He has missed from 49, 51, 55 and 55.
50% on kicks over 45 yards. I like that he kicks a straighter ball. Once he figures out the angle on the real long ones, he should be great at it because he kicks a straight ball, and has less variation from kick to kick.


He has plenty of leg for the longest kicks they ever will try, he just doesn't always control it well enough yet. That's not surprising. A lot of young kickers struggle on the long ones, and many coaches hesitate to even try 50+ yard attempts for that reason. It took Longwell half of his career before he learned to kick the long ones, and now he is very good at it. In his first six seasons, Longwell was just 6/13 on kicks over 50 yards. Crosby is at 7/15 after just two and a half seasons.

I think Crosby is good right now, and could end up being one of the best in the league. He needs a little more seasoning.

Well, I hope you are right. After he missed the 2 game winners last year I soured on him and I probably view him with an agenda now. 50% from 45+ is solid, and like I said, I can't quantify it. The numbers overall are good, and hopefully he will change my feelings. I just hope it happens fast.

I think Crosby is a lot like Rodgers. They are both very good at their respective positions, but they both need to come through in big games. Also, if what is rumored about Crosby's directional kicking is true (that they are doing it to protect deficiencies in the team), then that is another thing they share - their respective talents are being hampered by lesser players around them (Rodgers limited in part by the O line).

[esoxx]

Another thing that goes un noticed is the fact that TED THOMPSON, and no one else is to blame, has not found a punter worth 2 shits since he's been here.

Problem is, you can't make one out of thin air. There wasn't one when he came, he has tried a lot of different ones, and still hasn't found one. Sure, they likely would have been better with Jon Ryan, but he certainly wasn't and isn't anything special as a punter. There are a lot of punters around that really aren't very good. With punters, supply doesn't meet demand. Almost like QBs, a few really good ones, some OK ones and a bunch taking up a spot until the team finds someone better.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/52221267.html

...your point????

Guess I need to spell it out huh????

Yeah, the point is there are ways to find a competent punter, perhaps not out of thin air, perhaps, heaven forbid, via free agency or even keeping Jon Ryan versus cutting him on the eve of the 2008 season for....Derrick Frost??? That was a downgrade, no?

Packers couldn't have played their hand any worse when it comes to their current punting situation, well, unless they decided to bring back Don Bracken or Julian McBride I suppose. Bucky Schribner anyone?

Some people will whistle past the graveyard when it comes to just about anything with this current regime. There's always an excuse or reason why they can't do this or that.

Spin away.

[Zool]

I think he's saying he'd rather have Hunter Smith and his 1.5 yards less per kick.

so would I

Why? Washington is giving up 5.8 per return and the Packers are giving up over 13 per. Maybe some of that is on the punter but the coverage teams suck, punt and kickoff. Have for quite a few consecutive seasons.

Why....ah...cause I think he's a better punter. That's about it. Plus, it'd be neat to see TTT win a competition for a free agent once as well. I suppose he won the battle for Pickett a few years back.

In what sense is he a better punter? Does being on a shitty team in Washington bring down his punting stats? His coverage team is better than the Packers.

[Patler]

Another thing that goes un noticed is the fact that TED THOMPSON, and no one else is to blame, has not found a punter worth 2 shits since he's been here.

Problem is, you can't make one out of thin air. There wasn't one when he came, he has tried a lot of different ones, and still hasn't found one. Sure, they likely would have been better with Jon Ryan, but he certainly wasn't and isn't anything special as a punter. There are a lot of punters around that really aren't very good. With punters, supply doesn't meet demand. Almost like QBs, a few really good ones, some OK ones and a bunch taking up a spot until the team finds someone better.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/52221267.html

...your point????

Guess I need to spell it out huh????

Yeah, the point is there are ways to find a competent punter, perhaps not out of thin air, perhaps, heaven forbid, via free agency or even keeping Jon Ryan versus cutting him on the eve of the 2008 season for....Derrick Frost??? That was a downgrade, no?

Packers couldn't have played their hand any worse when it comes to their current punting situation, well, unless they decided to bring back Don Bracken or Julian McBride I suppose. Bucky Schribner anyone?

Some people will whistle past the graveyard when it comes to just about anything with this current regime. There's always an excuse or reason why they can't do this or that.

Spin away.

So what exactly did TT do wrong?:

"The situation in Green Bay was better from a financial standpoint, but it made more sense to come here," Smith said Friday in Washington.

He offered a better financial deal than Washington did, and Smith turned it down.

I'm not defending Kapinos, but a one year deal for Smith isn't the way to build a team. In retrospect, Ryan would be somewhat better, but he is nothing to get excited about either. If TT had kept Ryan, people would complain that TT isn't trying to get better. He tried, and hasn't been successful yet. I suspect he will keep trying.

Kapinos hasn't helped the team, but I don't think he has hurt them either. I don't see that having Hunter Smith, Jon Ryan or a bunch of the other active and available punters would make the Packers much better than they are.

The real mistake made by the Packers was losing Hentrich, and to a lesser extent losing Bidwell. Since then, most of their changes have been like exchanging a quarter for two dimes and a nickel. Different, but no change in value.

[Fritz]

It's the coverage. It's the coverage.

[MJZiggy]

Hard to outkick your coverage when you don't have any...

[pbmax]

It's the coverage. It's the coverage.

I will say that no matter how long (or short) the kick, the hang time has to be there for coverage to be effective. And Kapinos has been going in reverse this season so far. That isn't helping.

As for Crosby, have we kicked directionally or squibbed more than once each? We squibbed Harvin. I think injuries to the Fullback Triumvirate, Chillar, Blackmon and Nelson plays a part there.

And we directionally kicked Cribbs. Those two are especially dangerous.

[Maxie the Taxi]

It's the coverage. It's the coverage.

I will say that no matter how long (or short) the kick, the hang time has to be there for coverage to be effective. And Kapinos has been going in reverse this season so far. That isn't helping.

As for Crosby, have we kicked directionally or squibbed more than once each? We squibbed Harvin. I think injuries to the Fullback Triumvirate, Chillar, Blackmon and Nelson plays a part there.

And we directionally kicked Cribbs. Those two are especially dangerous.

I agree with this except for one thing. Yes, injuries to good coverage guys do hurt. Derrick Martin and Korey Hall are hurt, and as I recall Jason Hunter was a ST beast. But, No, I don't prefer squib kicks or directional kicks to booming one deep into the end zone or over it. I think field position GIVEN UP VOLUNTARILY with a squib kick hurts more in the long run than an occasional long run back.

Bottom line: Make the other team pay for every inch of ground. Make them earn it, work for it. Don't hand it too them on a silver platter. That goes for trying long field goals, too. Punt it deep into their territory. Pin them back. And let them work their way out of having their backs to the goal line.