Mason Crosby - let's look at details.

[channtheman]

I've been pissed at Mason a lot lately but I like this topic. Just like Patler to bring everyone back down to earth.

Didn't a kicker for the Chargers miss like a 23 yard field goal to lose the game? It was rainy and the weather conditions weren't perfect but that should be automatic right? Or is it Bush league to miss that.

I recall another one where the Colts kicker missed a game winner in the playoffs. Was in the 40 yard range and in a dome. Is that bush league?

[channtheman]

Well my memory is fuzzy but my point still stands. It was a Colts kicker I was thinking of in the first example. Missed a 29 yarder to win it.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071112/SPORTS03/711120395/-1/LOCAL17

In the 2005 NFL Playoffs, in a tightly contested game against the Pittsburgh Steelers, Vanderjagt missed a 46-yard field goal attempt wide right with 18 seconds remaining, when the Colts were behind 21-18, costing the Colts a chance at overtime and ending the team's season. Walking off the field after the kick, he took off his helmet and threw it to the ground in anger (which cost his team a meaningless 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Vanderjagt

I guess Vanderjagt and Vinatieri probably aren't any good (LOL) because they missed what should be 100% never misses, according to some of the statements around here. Especially the second example being in a dome. I mean seriously?!

[Freak Out]

Well my memory is fuzzy but my point still stands. It was a Colts kicker I was thinking of in the first example. Missed a 29 yarder to win it.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071112/SPORTS03/711120395/-1/LOCAL17

In the 2005 NFL Playoffs, in a tightly contested game against the Pittsburgh Steelers, Vanderjagt missed a 46-yard field goal attempt wide right with 18 seconds remaining, when the Colts were behind 21-18, costing the Colts a chance at overtime and ending the team's season. Walking off the field after the kick, he took off his helmet and threw it to the ground in anger (which cost his team a meaningless 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Vanderjagt

I guess Vanderjagt and Vinatieri probably aren't any good (LOL) because they missed what should be 100% never misses, according to some of the statements around here. Especially the second example being in a dome. I mean seriously?!

Vanderjagt is the reason the Colts went out and got Vinatieri in the first place....is the guy still kicking in the NFL? At one point in his career he had some insane kicking percentage going but lost a few games for the Colts and that was it.

[esoxx]

Gee Chann, did some other kickers really miss some chip shots and dome kicks? Golly, good research there.

If you can't grasp my point then your history lesson means nothing.

43 yards, not at the end of the game so choke potential low. Yet Mason goes way wide. Yes, bush league. Make the kick or at least show your drawing big bucks to kick a ball for a living by getting it in the vicinity.

Is that too much too ask? Really?

Defend away then.

But hey, I recall a kicker in the Astrodome before they razed that stadium that missed a 31 yarder in the 2nd quarter. So I guess I shouldn't be too hard on him. He being a thin skinned professional and all. I'm sure he tried his best after all.

[channtheman]

Gee Chann, did some other kickers really miss some chip shots and dome kicks? Golly, good research there.

If you can't grasp my point then your history lesson means nothing.

43 yards, not at the end of the game so choke potential low. Yet Mason goes way wide. Yes, bush league. Make the kick or at least show your drawing big bucks to kick a ball for a living by getting it in the vicinity.

Is that too much too ask? Really?

Defend away then.

But hey, I recall a kicker in the Astrodome before they razed that stadium that missed a 31 yarder in the 2nd quarter. So I guess I shouldn't be too hard on him. He being a thin skinned professional and all. I'm sure he tried his best after all.

My point wasn't that "some shit kicker" missed those kicks. It was that 2 good field goal kickers missed those kicks. Shit happens and we don't know how or why the miss happened. Maybe it was just a bad kick, a hold gone wrong, etc. You don't know and to come on here and spout off that it is "bush league" to miss a kick? Come on.

Also, a missed kick is a missed kick, who the fuck gives 2 shits if he misses by 2 feet to the left or 20 feet to the left? It isn't like you get 1 point for only missing by 2 feet. I bet you would be on here bitching about how he missed it even if it was really close. Who do you suggest we replace Crosby with, btw?

[esoxx]

Who said I want Crosby replaced? Settle down.

That sand in your vagina must chafe.

[channtheman]

Who said I want Crosby replaced? Settle down.

That sand in your vagina must chafe.

Oh nice, you take my last statement and insult me! I'm guessing I won then. Good night.

[Partial]

hahaha, references to sandy vages instantly improve the quality of discussion!

Chasin' Mason is fine. Coach Mac doesn't set him up for success imo.

We'll see how he handles his next opp at a 40+ game winner. That will be interesting to see.

[esoxx]

Keep guessing.

You've won nothing.

You rant and rave like a lunatic and then take umbrage at an insult?

You're funny.

[Patler]

Gee Chann, did some other kickers really miss some chip shots and dome kicks? Golly, good research there.

If you can't grasp my point then your history lesson means nothing.

43 yards, not at the end of the game so choke potential low. Yet Mason goes way wide. Yes, bush league. Make the kick or at least show your drawing big bucks to kick a ball for a living by getting it in the vicinity.

Is that too much too ask? Really?

Defend away then.

But hey, I recall a kicker in the Astrodome before they razed that stadium that missed a 31 yarder in the 2nd quarter. So I guess I shouldn't be too hard on him. He being a thin skinned professional and all. I'm sure he tried his best after all.

If missing a 43 yarder is "bush league" then why is it that only six kickers have no misses from 40-49 yards, one with only 1 attempt and 4 with only 2 attempts? One kicker is 5/5. Other than those six, everyone has missed at least one kick from that range. I guess they are all "bush league" kickers.

From 30-39 yards, kickers miss. Only 14 are perfect from that range, including Crosby. If most of the kicker miss 30-39 yard kicks, why is a 43 yard miss "bush league"?

[chain_gang]

Crosby is alright, nothing special and not terrible. Do I have the confidence that he will make game winning FG's not right now, although we haven't really been in that situation yet this year. I guess maybe I'm in the minority that feels if he has 5 attempts for 50+yds he should be converting about 60% to justify him trotting out on the field for anything longer than 50 yds. As for the argument that he one make away this season from being at 80% accuracy, well a few seasons ago Dave Rayner was two makes away from being at 80% accuracy, does that make him a good kicker? No kidding a miss or a make can drive you above or below that 80% marker pretty easily. This coming month I believe is a big one for Crosby, and with games against Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Chicago in potential sub-par weather, may very well make or break his career in Green Bay.

[LP]

All but one of his misses this year were beyond the 50. Maybe MM shouldn't be asking him to attempt these longer ones. After Crosby stops missing these long ones his confidence will swell and he'll be a better kicker for it. The kicking game is played more between the ears than the right foot...

If MM doesn't ask for the attempt, then Crosby can't stop missing them. Practice all you want, but the only time they count is in the game and you can't simulate that kind of internal pressure or defensive effort. At least Crosby doen't blame everyone but himself like some in the past.

[Fritz]

Gee Chann, did some other kickers really miss some chip shots and dome kicks? Golly, good research there.

If you can't grasp my point then your history lesson means nothing.

43 yards, not at the end of the game so choke potential low. Yet Mason goes way wide. Yes, bush league. Make the kick or at least show your drawing big bucks to kick a ball for a living by getting it in the vicinity.

Is that too much too ask? Really?

Defend away then.

But hey, I recall a kicker in the Astrodome before they razed that stadium that missed a 31 yarder in the 2nd quarter. So I guess I shouldn't be too hard on him. He being a thin skinned professional and all. I'm sure he tried his best after all.

In an attempt to keep this conversation as a rational attempt to place Crosby amongst the kickers of the league, and keep this from becoming a histrionic, mindless rage, I will "defend away."

First, per your italicized section: Crosby is not making any more money as a kicker than many kickers. He's not paid like an elite kicker - yet. Secondly, his 43 yard miss to the right was well within the vicinity.

Chann's point is that your point about a miss being somehow "bush league" is incorrect. All kickers miss kicks. Even Jason Hanson, even Vinatieri. Some miss game winners, some miss middle-of-the-game attempts. The differences that separate the very good from the average are slight.

Your question as to whether it is too much to ask for a kicker to make all his attempts from 45 yards and withing, or be considered "bush league" - yes, it is too much to ask. Can you please list the names of the kickers you have found who have, say, more than one season in the league and have made every single kick from 45 yards and under?

Patler has pointed out that Crosby's career percentage is not much lower than the sainted 80% despite having a number of long-distance attempts, unlike kickers like Robbie Gould.

[GBRulz]

I'm not sold that Crosby is our guy for the future. I admit, much of that is based on him not being able to convert from last year (two game winning attempts and failed). I realize most of his misses this year have been from 50+ yards, but some aren't even close. Then against Detroit his misses from 43 and just barely made that 20 yarder after that. This is in a dome, people!

My stance.... I think competition should be brought in for him next training camp.

[mraynrand]

Crosby is OK. Stubby needs to think carefully about kicking those long FGs versus pinning the other team back and playing D. If anything, the Packers need a decent punter who can directionally kick or has a better ability to down it inside the 15 (improving the teams guys who down the ball couldn't hurt either).