Offensive Line Theory #245

[RashanGary]

Our three biggest lineman look like our three best lineman (Sitton/Lang/Spitz). Maybe he should stick with those types and avoid the midgets.

[RashanGary]

I don't see why our lineman have to be so athletic anyway. Just watching, it seems like more strength would be better than more agility. They're in their leveraging and pushing. It's not like they're out in space very often.

[pbmax]

Phenomenal, thanks Waldo. Can I suggest we avoid repetitions under 28 and shuttle over 4.5?

I think KYPack also keeps some combine numbers, maybe he has something for Moll. Oddly, the two things Lang and Sitton have over the other candidates would seem to be slightly at odds with each other (reps and shuttle).

Meredith seems very similar to Loadholt, except faster. Wonder why they thought LT right away?

You can see though why I said that TT isn't necessarily looking for different body types. If it was decided that we need mass and to emphasize that more, obviously something would have to suffer relative to the guys we were taking, and that thing would be athleticism. But that simply isn't the case. When presented with two prospects of equal athleticism, but a size difference, all else being equal only an idiot would take the little guy.

I've always said that it is a huge misconception that the ZBS looks for little guys. No, all schemes are looking 5 of those perfect guys like Jason Smith. The reality is those guys are extremely scarce, the trade offs made will determine the look of the line. ZBS teams value the athleticism, and will sacrifice size in a less than perfect prospect. You can't just go into a draft and pull out 5 Josh Sittons or TJ Langs. If things fall right you'll get the chance to draft one every year-every other year without significant reaches, if you are willing to dig hard and ignore some of the draft dogma, and trust your coaches. Or spend premium picks.

Meredith is a garbage run blocker. He's one of those guys that could play RT, but he would just be a pass blocker and add little to the run game. He lacks that thing that Lang exhibits, where he wants to beat up the guy across from him on every play.

Body type might have been the wrong heading to use for the piece, but I wanted to tie it to the information that Capers gave in his opening remarks when he was introduced as DC.

I agree that few teams can seriously hope to land 5 ideal types on the O Line, regardless of system; but of course, they still try. As I recall, Denver went to great lengths, including rumors of tampering, to land Tony Jones when he left the Browns and he was no tiny right tackle. And I agree that a Denver type ZBS would value athletic skill over bulk in a trade off with non-ideal draft prospects.

But I think that the fact that Lang, Meredith and Sitton are more powerful (at least as measured by reps) than Colledge, Giacomini or Moll might point to a change in direction. That change might only be in the trade off they are willing to make. But with a very small sample size, it seems to have fit their coaching and play calling better. Its also just possible that T2 just hit on two in a row. Time may tell.

[bobblehead]

Phenomenal, thanks Waldo. Can I suggest we avoid repetitions under 28 and shuttle over 4.5?

I think KYPack also keeps some combine numbers, maybe he has something for Moll. Oddly, the two things Lang and Sitton have over the other candidates would seem to be slightly at odds with each other (reps and shuttle).

Meredith seems very similar to Loadholt, except faster. Wonder why they thought LT right away?

You can see though why I said that TT isn't necessarily looking for different body types. If it was decided that we need mass and to emphasize that more, obviously something would have to suffer relative to the guys we were taking, and that thing would be athleticism. But that simply isn't the case. When presented with two prospects of equal athleticism, but a size difference, all else being equal only an idiot would take the little guy.

I've always said that it is a huge misconception that the ZBS looks for little guys. No, all schemes are looking 5 of those perfect guys like Jason Smith. The reality is those guys are extremely scarce, the trade offs made will determine the look of the line. ZBS teams value the athleticism, and will sacrifice size in a less than perfect prospect. You can't just go into a draft and pull out 5 Josh Sittons or TJ Langs. If things fall right you'll get the chance to draft one every year-every other year without significant reaches, if you are willing to dig hard and ignore some of the draft dogma, and trust your coaches. Or spend premium picks.

Meredith is a garbage run blocker. He's one of those guys that could play RT, but he would just be a pass blocker and add little to the run game. He lacks that thing that Lang exhibits, where he wants to beat up the guy across from him on every play.

Body type might have been the wrong heading to use for the piece, but I wanted to tie it to the information that Capers gave in his opening remarks when he was introduced as DC.

I agree that few teams can seriously hope to land 5 ideal types on the O Line, regardless of system; but of course, they still try. As I recall, Denver went to great lengths, including rumors of tampering, to land Tony Jones when he left the Browns and he was no tiny right tackle. And I agree that a Denver type ZBS would value athletic skill over bulk in a trade off with non-ideal draft prospects.

But I think that the fact that Lang, Meredith and Sitton are more powerful (at least as measured by reps) than Colledge, Giacomini or Moll might point to a change in direction. That change might only be in the trade off they are willing to make. But with a very small sample size, it seems to have fit their coaching and play calling better. Its also just possible that T2 just hit on two in a row. Time may tell.

the part in bold is my guess, but like Waldo said, guys like Lang and Sitton want to maul the guy across from them, I rarely see that intensity from DC or Cliffy. Babre has it as well, but for some reason looks as bad in pass pro as anyone I've ever seen get significant time. Guys with that chip on their shoulder are battlers, they come back harder when they get beat....others put their tail between their legs and crawl away.

[Waldo]

Our three biggest lineman look like our three best lineman (Sitton/Lang/Spitz). Maybe he should stick with those types and avoid the midgets.

Would you be in favor of just drafting the big guys then, and skipping on the smaller guys that could develop?

You know that TT's yearly take of lineman would cut in half or more. I'm not so sure that is the best idea.

LIS, there aren't a whole lot of guys like that out there. Either you spend a 1st/2nd every year, or you keep taking the guys like Moll as well and hope you get a decent batting average, but busts surely are to be expected.

One thing I've tried to impress on people, is how insanely rare prospects like Lang and Sitton are. Saying "get more guys like them" is blowing hot air, go back through all of the drafts in the MM/TT era and find a guy like them that he has passed on.

Ted has taken a small school guy that has the athleticism and overall good ruler measurements every year in either the 4th or 5th. The more polished ones have come from the 4th (Barbre, Sitton, Lang), the raw ones from the 5th (Coston, Moll, Giacomini). You can't expect a batting average any better than 50% with these guys, even if you are lucky, but it helps to cut down on the number of premium picks spent on lineman. Heck you don't even really need to use your mid round pick, just trade your second down 10 spots or so, and you get the 4th/5th rounder free.