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    There is a good article in JS Online on McStubby's lack of a ground game Sunday:



    Bob McGinn sums up his article by writing:

    Clearly, the Packers will need their ground game before long. They just didn't think they needed it in Pittsburgh against the Steelers' 3-4 base personnel.
    The article offers interesting insights from McStubby and Campen on the lack of a ground game.

    McStubby sums it up by saying:

    "They played a lot more base defense vs. some of our personnel groups," McCarthy said of his extreme offensive imbalance. "We felt confident throwing the football. We intended to attack the middle of the field. That's why we were throwing the football."
    He expanded on the subject in today's press conference:

    (The run-pass ratio was skewed. Are you OK with running the ball as little as you did?)
    It's about points; it always has been. I think running the ball and throwing the ball statistically, it just makes you look at that area. I know you go through the run/pass ratios all of the time. We don't always play that way. We have a quarterback and an offensive unit that can handle a lot of adjustments at the line, and I think we're very good at that part of it. If it's running the ball versus a better look, we'll run it, and if it's throwing it versus a better look then we'll throw it. That's a starting point. Sometimes we line up and just throw it and sometimes we line up and just run it. The way the defense plays you when you are a multiple-personnel, multiple-concept, multiple-formation offense, has a lot to do with the direction of the game. Walking into the game I thought we would be a little more mixed run/throw the football, but the way they played us on first and second down, I thought we did a good job of attacking their defense.
    I find McStubby's answer amazing. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it seems McStubby is saying he goes into the game trying to score as many points as possible and actually lets the opponent's defense dictate his play calling mix.

    This sounds reasonable on the surface. Yes, points are nice. You can't win without them. And TACTICALLY it's wise to take what the defense gives you.

    On the other hand, shouldn't a team have an overall STRATEGY to win the game, not just score points? Yes, scoring a ton of points can lead to a win, but, as we saw yesterday, that strategy doesn't work if the opponent manages to score a ton of points too, plus one.

    Big Ben was on the field over 10 minutes longer than Rodgers yesterday. That means the Packer defense was on the field over 10 minutes longer than Pittsburgh's. I think that showed down the stretch.

    All of those three and outs the Packers had yesterday consumed very little time and cost the Steelers very little in terms of expended effort.

    I don't care what defensive formation the Steelers were in. I don't care what their reputation is for being able to stop the run. If we had run the ball on every down and still went three-and-out, at least we would have bloodied some Steeler noses and took some time off the clock, time which Big Ben needed on that last drive down the field.

    I think we could have run the ball more and still have thrown the ball down the field and scored -- maybe not as often, but then maybe we would have needed so many points.

    When we've run the ball over 20 times this year, we've done pretty good. We've scored points and won the Time of Possession battle. And won games.

    When we've engaged the other team in a pure passing contest, we've failed as often as we've succeeded, especially against teams with top notch QB's. And against them, we've often needed a plus number of turnovers to seal the victory.

    Sunday, we gave up on the rushing game -- either by design or by reason of what the Steeler defense dictated. The point is, it didn't work. And it will continue not to work.

    You can't rush the ball less than 20 times a game and lose the battle for Time of Possession and still win, unless you save yourself with turnovers.

    Sunday, we didn't have any game-changing turnovers. Zero.

    We rushed the ball 9 times.

    Yeah, I know: "We're a passing team." Many of you have been kind enough to point this out to me.

    In my opinion there's more to the game than passing. In fact, someone should tell McStubby that he's wrong. It's not all "about points" and it hasn't always been all about scoring points.

    It's about winning. 10 points will suffice as well as 36, so long as the opponent scores 9 or less.

    McStubby needs a new Strategery.
    One time Lombardi was disgusted with the team in practice and told them they were going to have to start with the basics. He held up a ball and said: "This is a football." McGee immediately called out, "Stop, coach, you're going too fast," and that gave everyone a laugh.
    John Maxymuk, Packers By The Numbers

  • #2
    Maybe we need a new HC. You know we're about even in record and stats as the Cowboys and its a forgone conclusion that Phillips will be spending "more time with the grandkids" next fall. Are our expectations any less?
    Lombardi told Starr to "Run it, and let's get the hell out of here!" - 'Ice Bowl' December 31, 1967

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    • #3
      I harp about the lack of running plays all the time, but this game I was kinda ok with it. The steelers were set up to stop the run all game long so we passed too much. It happens.

      I don't feel that is why we lost the game at all. Our D had a bad day against a team that had to win and did what it took to stay on the field over and over again. Our lack of running had them off balance and as a result Grant ripped off a nice TD run late. I prefer to dominate TOP and keep the other teams offense out of rhythm, but it just didn't work that way today and I'm not convinced running a lot more would have changed it.
      The only time success comes before work is in the dictionary -- Vince Lombardi

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      • #4
        maybe if we had run the ball more we would have controlled more of the clock, the D would have had more energy at the end of the game and maybe they don't give up that many points

        9 of our 12 drives were under 6 plays. 5 were 3 plays, 2 were 4 plays

        a 3 play drive for a TD sucks just as much as a 3 and out for the D

        in the 4th quarter, we had only 2 drives. one was 4 plays that took just under 2 minutes and got us a td and the other was a 6 play that took the same amount of time and gave us the same result

        we started the game with 4 straight 3 play drives

        9 of our drives took less then 2 minutes off the clock

        controlling the ball and the clock if a good first step to winning games

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm normally a big run-the-ball guy, but it appears that after Pittsburgh blitzed effectively early on, MM spread the offense out and Pitt stopped blitzing - and the Packer offense moved the ball.

          36 points is a lot of points to score for an offense. Especially given they received no turnovers from the defense. I'm having a hard time complaining about the offense.

          Maybe if the defense had stopped some of those third-and-longs they wouldn't have been on the field so much.
          "The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."

          KYPack

          Comment


          • #6
            If Cullen Jenkins can just sack a QB...we win the game.

            I find nothing at fault with the offensive playcalling yesterday...the Steelers were vulnerable to the pass, and if our receivers could catch a damn ball once in awhile, we could've put up 40+ points.
            My signature has NUDITY in it...whatcha gonna do?

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            • #7
              I love fans. I can understand wanting to run the ball more. However, Pittsburgh ranks first in rush defense. If we had won the game 36-30, people would have said McCarthy was a genius. If we had run the ball more and lost, people would have complained about trying to run it against the top rush defense.
              "There's a lot of interest in the draft. It's great. But quite frankly, most of the people that are commenting on it don't know anything about what they are talking about."--Ted Thompson

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              • #8
                Originally posted by HarveyWallbangers
                I love fans. I can understand wanting to run the ball more. However, Pittsburgh ranks first in rush defense. If we had won the game 36-30, people would have said McCarthy was a genius. If we had run the ball more and lost, people would have complained about trying to run it against the top rush defense.
                I don't think we're ever gonna have that complaint as long as McStubby's the coach.
                One time Lombardi was disgusted with the team in practice and told them they were going to have to start with the basics. He held up a ball and said: "This is a football." McGee immediately called out, "Stop, coach, you're going too fast," and that gave everyone a laugh.
                John Maxymuk, Packers By The Numbers

                Comment


                • #9
                  Fans have been conditioned to think that running the football leads to winning. Most of the time, that thought process is driven by the inverted logic of the Tony Dorsett Graphicâ„¢. The Toney Dorsett Graphicâ„¢ was a CBS invention and I am still waiting for the people responsible to be brought to justice.

                  Dallas would be playing whoever they were playing on National TV and as Dorsett got closer to the century mark, the Tony Dorsett Graphicâ„¢ would pop up: The Dallas Cowboys are 473 and 12 when Tony Dorsett runs for 100 yards or more. Entire generations of American were adversely affected by this bogus statistical cause and effect. Fathers, who well knew that their car did not run because they filled it with gas, but rather, ran because there was an engine in it that needed some gas among other things, suddenly put this graphic and Vince Lombardi together and started to believe running was the only solid, surefire way to win. Run early and often, wear out the D, then run to win the game. A generation later, watching Bill Walsh make a fool of John Madden (no one remembers that Madden did not think you could win this way in the NFL-he talked of it as a fad, like people later referred to the Run and Shoot - he gave it up after the 2nd Super Bowl); Bill Walsh, who wanted his backs to be able to block and catch before he would worry about running ability, could not undo the damage.

                  Forests have been leveled for paper and energy to write statistical studies and publish blogs that cover the fact that running early (or mostly running) is not a winning strategy (its worse to equal compared to other, pass friendlier strategies). Still, no one believes this. Everyone believes the Tony Dorsett Graphicâ„¢. No on stopped to think that the reason Dorsett was headed to 100 every game was that the Cowboys were good and usually had a lead or were very close. And when they had the lead in the second half, they would run Dorsett to milk the clock. Good teams run because they are ahead in the game. See the Packers 90s Super Bowl teams and remember no one thought Holmgren ran enough on first down or in the first half.

                  Unfortunately, something very useful has been lost in this mimicking of coach-speak. Running the ball is safer (less turnovers, fewer zero yard plays), though not as likely to score. So there is a statistical advantage to running in certain situations, and an argument can be made that running should outweigh passing when you winning or tied, even more true later in the game for obvious reasons. The most clear point on this matter is Dan Henning, Parcell's Offensive Coordinator at several stops. In his playbook, Henning says his offense, ideally, will work towards a 60-40 run-pass split. Not because of the tactical or strategic advantage, but because it limits risk. It goes without saying that this ratio is impossible in high-scoring games and when you are behind for most of the game. Its a battle of field position and risk in a close game, but not in others.

                  Starting with the pass-friendly rule changes in 1978, etc. passing has become far less risky that it was for Lombardi or Madden. The reason the Packer offense has been successful this season despite its shortcomings, is that it doesn't turn the ball over. Which makes passing closer in risk to running, but more capable of scoring.

                  As for McCarthy's play calling strategy, he probably does not make a single play call based on defensive personnel alone. Based on down and distance he calls both a run and a pass, possibly a play and an audible, or sometimes two passes and one run which can be switched left and right. This is part of the responsibility he put on Rodgers shoulders before the Cowboy game. Rodgers selects one play at the line based on personnel and look. There is another team in the NFL that does this (and there are undoubtedly more). The Indianapolis Colts and Peyton Manning run this matchup offense pretty well.
                  Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thank you pb!

                    I agree with you that teams that run well win. This is a passing league now.

                    The top 4 rushing teams in the NFL:
                    Jets
                    Titans
                    Panthers
                    Dolphins

                    Combined record: 27-29

                    Top 4 passing teams in the NFL:
                    Colts
                    Texans
                    Saints
                    Patriots

                    Combined record: 43-13
                    All hail the Ruler of the Meadow!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I honestly wish we'd pass it every single time (short yardage exceptions)


                      (PB GREAT POST BTW!)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        pbmax, I agree with pretty much of what you say. I'm not trying to turn the Packers into a running team. I just want McStubby to remember that Grant's on the squad.

                        I think what's saved the Packers this year is not only the fact that they don't turn the ball over. (They didn't turn it over Sunday).

                        What's saved them is they have been forcing turnovers, so they've been consistently in plus territory, except against Minnesota (1st game) and Tampa Bay. Being plus in turnovers forgives a lot of sins.

                        The last two games, no plus in turnovers.

                        I guess I really don't like the "matchup offense" thing. Rubs me the wrong way. Manning is really experienced at it. Rodgers ain't Manning, yet.

                        I guess what I don't like about it is how there is no "continuity" to it. You'll get the start of a good drive going and "bam" on third down and five Rodgers heaves it downfield trying for the big play instead of just gaining enough for a 1st down. Then we punt.

                        I prefer the West Coast Offense the way Holmgren played it. New England seems to play something similar. Dink and dunk, run and dunk, dink and dunk. Get a rhythm going, then pop one.

                        No right way, I guess. Just personal preference. MM and Rodgers live and die by big plays.
                        One time Lombardi was disgusted with the team in practice and told them they were going to have to start with the basics. He held up a ball and said: "This is a football." McGee immediately called out, "Stop, coach, you're going too fast," and that gave everyone a laugh.
                        John Maxymuk, Packers By The Numbers

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I am not sure Rodger and McCarthy are doing the three plays calls per down. That is speculation, but its clear they moved from McCarthy making all but the protection calls to Rodger having more than just run/pass options. That much they have talked about publicly, earlier this season.

                          Then there is the quote Maxie has above where McCarthy admits they base pass and run play calls to a degree on the defensive personnel. Left unspoken is a change from run to pass or vice versa which, I think, we have all seen Rodgers do. We have also seen him change the strength of the formation which could be reversing a play's direction.

                          I think its clear he has options, but its not as clear that he is given as free a reign as Manning. He simply doesn't do as much play calling at the line of scrimmage. But I know Ryan Grant missed at least four carries in this game because his QB changed a run play to a pass.
                          Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Jesus fucking christ. We score 36 points and give up 37...and a certain poster is complaining about not running the ball.

                            The object of the game is to score more points than the opposition. At no point were the pack ever ahead comfortably and feeling like they controlled the game. Maybe Ty's memory is wrong, but Ty saw the steelers score 3 tds in the first half.

                            How about talking about a defense that gives up 37 points?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tyrone Bigguns
                              Jesus fucking christ. We score 36 points and give up 37...and a certain poster is complaining about not running the ball.

                              The object of the game is to score more points than the opposition. At no point were the pack ever ahead comfortably and feeling like they controlled the game. Maybe Ty's memory is wrong, but Ty saw the steelers score 3 tds in the first half.

                              How about talking about a defense that gives up 37 points?
                              Or a coaching staff that could call a blitz at the end to push Roethlisberger into a quick throw. Or, what the hell, maybe rush MORE THAN ##(*(@*) 3 guys!

                              That D gave HUGE chunks of yards ALL GAME LONG yesterday.
                              -digital dean

                              No "TROLLS" allowed!

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