Most Courageous QB Effort

[pbmax]

Crucial plays can happen at any time in a game. The great ones are simply the one's every remembers near the end of the game. Rodgers made most of those plays. He needed one more. He spent the last four games or so overthrowing deep.

But in order of concern Rodgers is 52nd on my list of worries (Josh Sitton played very well )

The other 51 concerns all play or coach defense.

[Patler]

This is one of those rare times I have to disagree with Patler. He led them to 35 second half points and played incredibly well. There is not a QB in history that could have overcome our D giving up 51 yesterday.

Yes, Rodgers played very well, I don't dispute that. But Rodgers himself could have overcome his own defense. It was right there for him to do. All he had to do was complete the pass to Jennings. It wasn't even that difficult of a throw, he had more difficult ones in the game. Jennings was very open.

That is what separates an extremely good performance, which Rodgers had, from a great one. He failed to win the game when the opportunity presented itself.

[TravisWilliams23]

Until Rodgers starts to make great plays at critical times to win games, he is just a very good QB, but not a great one. Yes, Favre had some monumental meltdowns in some of those situations, but he also had incredible performances in other key plays. So far, Rodgers has neither, and youth/experience is no excuse, because, as we have seen, greatness exhibits itself even in very young and inexperienced athletes.

The Pack was down 17-0 and 31-10 during that game. Rodgers led the team to seven consecutive scoring drives. Certainly there were great plays at critical times during those 7 drives.

He outright missed Jennings on the 1st down pass in OT. Plus 2 missed penalties on the next 2 plays. If anyone of those are called, who knows how that game ends.

[Scott Campbell]

This is one of those rare times I have to disagree with Patler. He led them to 35 second half points and played incredibly well. There is not a QB in history that could have overcome our D giving up 51 yesterday.

Yes, Rodgers played very well, I don't dispute that. But Rodgers himself could have overcome his own defense. It was right there for him to do. All he had to do was complete the pass to Jennings. It wasn't even that difficult of a throw, he had more difficult ones in the game. Jennings was very open.

That is what separates an extremely good performance, which Rodgers had, from a great one. He failed to win the game when the opportunity presented itself.

Jesus Christ himself couldn't have overcome our own defense. (Sorry for the blasphemy)


I think you and I are just not going to agree on this one. Watching him yesterday made me want to clear extra room in our trophy case. Surround him with a halfway decent team and he can bring home the hardware. His defense wasn't halfway decent yesterday.

[Patler]

Crucial plays can happen at any time in a game. The great ones are simply the one's every remembers near the end of the game. Rodgers made most of those plays. He needed one more. He spent the last four games or so overthrowing deep.

But in order of concern Rodgers is 52nd on my list of worries (Josh Sitton played very well )

The other 51 concerns all play or coach defense.

I agree, crucial plays can happen anytime, but also in some contests, none of that matters because you are given one last opportunity to win. Make the play and you win. That's what happened here. In those situations, some players seem to come through more than others. Favre has many times. Roethlisberger did a couple weeks ago. Rodgers had a chance yesterday, and he didn't do it.

I'm not at all worried about Rodgers, because he is extremely good, and most times that will be enough. He may even turn out to be great. So far, he's not; which means the rest of the team has to be better.

I mentioned Rodgers' recent overthrows on long passes yesterday while watching the game. He seems to be throwing flatter on deep routes, which gives the receiver less chance to adjust, but also can result in catches in stride that go for TDs. I wonder if it is intentional.

[Scott Campbell]

Crucial plays can happen at any time in a game. The great ones are simply the one's every remembers near the end of the game. Rodgers made most of those plays. He needed one more. He spent the last four games or so overthrowing deep.

But in order of concern Rodgers is 52nd on my list of worries (Josh Sitton played very well )

The other 51 concerns all play or coach defense.

I agree, crucial plays can happen anytime, but also in some contests, none of that matters because you are given one last opportunity to win. Make the play and you win. That's what happened here. In those situations, some players seem to come through more than others. Favre has many times. Roethlisberger did a couple weeks ago. Rodgers had a chance yesterday, and he didn't do it.

He could have fed the rock to Grant 12 straight times and marched the team down for a FG. Then people would say he came through in the end, even if all he did was hand the ball off a bunch.

He led his team to 45 points in a playoff game. It's enough for me. I've seen enough and think he's already destined for greatness.

[Patler]

Until Rodgers starts to make great plays at critical times to win games, he is just a very good QB, but not a great one. Yes, Favre had some monumental meltdowns in some of those situations, but he also had incredible performances in other key plays. So far, Rodgers has neither, and youth/experience is no excuse, because, as we have seen, greatness exhibits itself even in very young and inexperienced athletes.

The Pack was down 17-0 and 31-10 during that game. Rodgers led the team to seven consecutive scoring drives. Certainly there were great plays at critical times during those 7 drives.

He outright missed Jennings on the 1st down pass in OT. Plus 2 missed penalties on the next 2 plays. If anyone of those are called, who knows how that game ends.

None of those "what ifs" matter, there was a chance to win the game on a single play that was not an extremely difficult throw. I'm not saying it was an easy throw, but it wouldn't have taken any incredible throw to complete it. I'm not even criticizing Rodgers for not completing it. I'm not downplaying his other performance in the game, which was extremely good. But, after all that happened for the team good and bad through the first 60 minutes, there was that one opportunity to overcome it all and win. They did not. Rodgers did not.

Until he makes plays like that to win, he will be an extremely good QB who gives his team the chance to win game in and game out. But he has not yet shown the ability to carry his team to victory in a crucial game when they might not deserve to win. The truly great ones do. Starr did. Favre did. So far, Rodgers has not. Until he does, he has not earned the right to stand on the platform with Starr and Favre. He might only be a step below. He might be capable of taking that step. But he's not there yet.

[Scott Campbell]

Until Rodgers starts to make great plays at critical times to win games, he is just a very good QB, but not a great one. Yes, Favre had some monumental meltdowns in some of those situations, but he also had incredible performances in other key plays. So far, Rodgers has neither, and youth/experience is no excuse, because, as we have seen, greatness exhibits itself even in very young and inexperienced athletes.

The Pack was down 17-0 and 31-10 during that game. Rodgers led the team to seven consecutive scoring drives. Certainly there were great plays at critical times during those 7 drives.

He outright missed Jennings on the 1st down pass in OT. Plus 2 missed penalties on the next 2 plays. If anyone of those are called, who knows how that game ends.

None of those "what ifs" matter, there was a chance to win the game on a single play that was not an extremely difficult throw. I'm not saying it was an easy throw, but it wouldn't have taken any incredible throw to complete it. I'm not even criticizing Rodgers for not completing it. I'm not downplaying his other performance in the game, which was extremely good. But, after all that happened for the team good and bad through the first 60 minutes, there was that one opportunity to overcome it all and win. They did not. Rodgers did not.

Until he makes plays like that to win, he will be an extremely good QB who gives his team the chance to win game in and game out. But he has not yet shown the ability to carry his team to victory in a crucial game when they might not deserve to win. The truly great ones do. Starr did. Favre did. So far, Rodgers has not. Until he does, he has not earned the right to stand on the platform with Starr and Favre. He might only be a step below. He might be capable of taking that step. But he's not there yet.

Ok, but what happens when those guys do deliver and achieve the mythical status. It doesn't matter much when you trot them back out there. Tom Brady is one of the truly greats, but lost yesterday.

I'll take Aaron over anybody in the league right now. The greatness exists in every great QB even before greatness is achieved.

[Patler]

He could have fed the rock to Grant 12 straight times and marched the team down for a FG. Then people would say he came through in the end, even if all he did was hand the ball off a bunch.

He led his team to 45 points in a playoff game. It's enough for me. I've seen enough and think he's already destined for greatness.

Feeding Grant would have shown the team coming through, maybe Grant and the O-line coming through. It would have "counted" in the silly tallies they like to keep for QBs on comeback wins, but it would have meant nothing for the Rodgers legacy. So far, Rodgers really has no legacy.

I have never seen a player "destined" for greatness, but I have seen a lot of great players. For the most part, it is a quality that they show by coming through when it is needed the most at all levels, even when they are young. There are a lot of extremely good athletes who continually get close. That's where I put Rodgers right now, as an extremely good QB who has gotten close.

[Patler]

Ok, but what happens when those guys do deliver and achieve the mythical status. It doesn't matter much when you trot them back out there. Tom Brady is one of the truly greats, but lost yesterday.

I'll take Aaron over anybody in the league right now. The greatness exists in every great QB even before greatness is achieved.

Not even the great ones are flawless. They fail too. As I mentioned, Favre has had monumental meltdowns along with spectacular successes. Some have more simple, routine failures along with their successes.

I'm very pleased with Rodgers, and would likely take him over any other young QB right now too. That does not make him a truly great QB.

[Scott Campbell]

He could have fed the rock to Grant 12 straight times and marched the team down for a FG. Then people would say he came through in the end, even if all he did was hand the ball off a bunch.

He led his team to 45 points in a playoff game. It's enough for me. I've seen enough and think he's already destined for greatness.

Feeding Grant would have shown the team coming through, maybe Grant and the O-line coming through. It would have "counted" in the silly tallies they like to keep for QBs on comeback wins, but it would have meant nothing for the Rodgers legacy. So far, Rodgers really has no legacy.

I have never seen a player "destined" for greatness, but I have seen a lot of great players. For the most part, it is a quality that they show by coming through when it is needed the most at all levels, even when they are young. There are a lot of extremely good athletes who continually get close. That's where I put Rodgers right now, as an extremely good QB who has gotten close.

And I see Rodgers as a great QB who had his defense give up 45 points in regulation. You can't win it alone.

And if we had lucked out, I think Brees might have hung 75 on us next week.

[mraynrand]

He could have fed the rock to Grant 12 straight times and marched the team down for a FG. Then people would say he came through in the end, even if all he did was hand the ball off a bunch.

He led his team to 45 points in a playoff game. It's enough for me. I've seen enough and think he's already destined for greatness.

Feeding Grant would have shown the team coming through, maybe Grant and the O-line coming through. It would have "counted" in the silly tallies they like to keep for QBs on comeback wins, but it would have meant nothing for the Rodgers legacy. So far, Rodgers really has no legacy.

I have never seen a player "destined" for greatness, but I have seen a lot of great players. For the most part, it is a quality that they show by coming through when it is needed the most at all levels, even when they are young. There are a lot of extremely good athletes who continually get close. That's where I put Rodgers right now, as an extremely good QB who has gotten close.

And I see Rodgers as a great QB who had his defense give up 45 points in regulation. You can't win it alone.

And if we had lucked out, I think Brees might have hung 75 on us next week.

This game reminds me a lot of that NFCC game in 1995 at Dallas - except Rodgers played better than Favre and the defense this year played worse.

[ThunderDan]

Ok, but what happens when those guys do deliver and achieve the mythical status. It doesn't matter much when you trot them back out there. Tom Brady is one of the truly greats, but lost yesterday.

I'll take Aaron over anybody in the league right now. The greatness exists in every great QB even before greatness is achieved.

Not even the great ones are flawless. They fail too. As I mentioned, Favre has had monumental meltdowns along with spectacular successes. Some have more simple, routine failures along with their successes.

I'm very pleased with Rodgers, and would likely take him over any other young QB right now too. That does not make him a truly great QB.

I would guess that once Arod gets to 12 postseason starts in his career, he will be an above .500 QB and we will have a Lombardi trophy again.

I stated a couple of weeks ago if we solidify our O-Line for a season most of the offensive NFL records could be broken with this group.

[Bretsky]

This is one of those rare times I have to disagree with Patler. He led them to 35 second half points and played incredibly well. There is not a QB in history that could have overcome our D giving up 51 yesterday.

Yes, Rodgers played very well, I don't dispute that. But Rodgers himself could have overcome his own defense. It was right there for him to do. All he had to do was complete the pass to Jennings. It wasn't even that difficult of a throw, he had more difficult ones in the game. Jennings was very open.

That is what separates an extremely good performance, which Rodgers had, from a great one. He failed to win the game when the opportunity presented itself.

agree; he didn't even need to make the great throw so Jennings catches it on the run. Just lay it up there and make it catchable. There was a huge room for error because Jennings was wide open. Rodgers ball was just uncatchable

[Patler]

And I see Rodgers as a great QB who had his defense give up 45 points in regulation. You can't win it alone.

And if we had lucked out, I think Brees might have hung 75 on us next week.

For the most part you can't win games on your own, but you can win a game because of one play at a critical time. If they had completed the pass and won the game, Rodgers would not have won the game alone. Jennings great TD catch would have contributed, Drivers catches, as would have Woodson's strip, and Mathews alert recovery and return. Others would also have contributed in less noticeable ways. I'm not blaming Rodgers for the loss. Clearly he played well enough for the team to win. But he did not drag them to a win in spite of themselves. He did have the chance to do it, however.

Do you really think they could have held Brees to 75???