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Should we have blitzed more?

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  • Should we have blitzed more?

    Well, I got rocked pretty good in the game thread yesterday for a contarian stance. In the middle of our loss when Kurt Warner was tearing us apart, many posters were screaming for the blitz. We must pressure Kurt Warner, so let's blitz him, right? I would pretty consistently say.. no. Why, doesn't KY want us to win?

    Yeah, I want to win. But you must do things in the game which allow you to win. Capers was pretty well handcuffed by his personnel groupings. And I will readily admit that at certain instances, a well placed storm might have helped our cause.

    First of all, Warner has reached elite status. He is a HOF QB. He is a guy you can't blitz. You didn't blitz Joe Montana. You didn't blitz Marino and you don't blitz Kurt Warner.

    Kurt was sacked just 24 times this past season. He is one of the best in the business at beating the blitz. In fact, Warner's passer rating against the blitz (100.4) is even better than his overall rating of 93.2. He makes a living whipping teams that do blitz him. He was the best QB in the league against blitzes in 2009. I maintain that Capers had a shitty hand to play, but played his cards as best he could.

    If Dom were to send five on a consistent basis, who would be our fifth rusher and who would cover the blitz? Collins leaps to mind. I don't recall any safety blitzes. So Bush and or Giordano are going to protect us deep?

    Hawk is no blitzing LB. So you send Chillar or Barnett, right? You start blitzing one of those two and Warner would eat that shit up. Woodson also comes to mind, but with the young corners struggling, it wouldn't have helped to send CW on corner blitzes.

    It also would have been nice to get pressure from Brad Jones, but after some nice work in the second half of the season, he disappeared in the play-off game. He's a good kid, but he was revealed to outmanned at his job in the play-offs.

    Bigby? Well he was hurt later, but maybe a SS blitz might have helped us some early. I know Dom was trying to get his coverages ironed out before he went to sending safeties. And there was trouble back there early also.

    Like GB, AZ's Head Coach is it's defacto OC. Whisenhunt was an offensive assistant with the Pittsburgh Steelers for five seasons, working regularly against the 3-4 zone-blitz defense that Capers and Dick LeBeau created in the early 1990s. Once Whiz saw the Packers trying to get 5 man pressure, we would have been gouged worse (if possible) than we already were.

    We got beat by a guy with a playoff record of 8-3, a passer rating of 98.8 and three Super Bowl appearances, including a world title in 1999.
    We are about at the same point we were when Dallas blew us up in 1995. We are a young team that doesn't have the horses, yet.

    We will get better. Capers helped keep MM's job for him this year. Dom isn't going anywhere soon, nor should he worry about his job. if you fire coordinator after one weak performance in the play-offs, it doesn't bode well for the organization. Dom's approach is sound, we just need experience and to play better.

  • #2
    Agreed. Especially on the blitzing thing. Warner was hot and hitting all the right routes. Giving him more open routes would not have done any good at all. The only thing the Pack could have done is outscore him, and they almost did.
    No longer the member of any fan clubs. I'm tired of jinxing players out of the league and into obscurity.

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    • #3
      I think there is a chance the coverage could improve based on experience. It may not be enough, but I would expect better reactions/anticipation that would lead to tighter coverage just from seeing everything a second time. What I am curious about is why the middle of our defense is vulnerable. Football Outsiders (during the game after Fox shared the Kurt Warner observation that they could attack the middle - and did) mentioned that out of six areas, short/deep, left/middle/right, it was our worst area of pass defense.

      As for blitzing, the only way it makes tactical sense is if you play tight to the LOS and send everything. The downside is that one error and its a TD on any play. But there is a reason the Bear defense is not used regularly anymore.
      Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

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      • #4
        Re: Should we have blitzed more?

        Originally posted by KYPack
        We are about at the same point we were when Dallas blew us up in 1995. We are a young team that doesn't have the horses, yet.
        Excellent post KY. I thought they sent Wood once and they got gashed for ~17 yards.

        At the beginning of this season I was hoping for 9-7/10-6 and maybe a WC win. That to me would indicate that this team was headed in the right direction. In the end, I felt like we'd overachieved that and was wondering if we ended up more like the 95 team than the 93/94 teams.
        When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro ~Hunter S.

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        • #5
          Re: Should we have blitzed more?

          Originally posted by denverYooper
          Originally posted by KYPack
          We are about at the same point we were when Dallas blew us up in 1995. We are a young team that doesn't have the horses, yet.
          Excellent post KY. I thought they sent Wood once and they got gashed for ~17 yards.

          At the beginning of this season I was hoping for 9-7/10-6 and maybe a WC win. That to me would indicate that this team was headed in the right direction. In the end, I felt like we'd overachieved that and was wondering if we ended up more like the 95 team than the 93/94 teams.
          Yeah, Yoop. They sent 5 a few times and it didn't seem to me the results warranted more of the same. I wanted to look at the tape, but shit, I don't wanna watch that thing yet. We made some great plays and ARod is the "slinger of the future" in the NFL, but that thing it still too painful to watch.

          Is that Colorado weather makin' ya homesick for the UP?

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          • #6
            Re: Should we have blitzed more?

            Originally posted by KYPack

            Is that Colorado weather makin' ya homesick for the UP?
            No way man. It was 50 degrees here yesterday, about twice what it was back in da yoop.

            We have UP weather for 1 week per season here. I miss it in the summer, but not in mid-January .
            When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro ~Hunter S.

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            • #7
              I normally like the blitz, but that's from a fan's perspective. What my question in all this is, is where does the improvement specifically have to happen?

              They can't chuck every defensive player - so what position groups need to be addressed? Does this defense need different linebackers than the ones that are back there? Do they need safeties more than linebackers? Or do they actually need an upgrade on the d-line? It was all so wrong yesterday I don't even know where they need to start.

              Anybody with a cooler head and more expertise have some idea what position group is the most in need?
              "The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."

              KYPack

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              • #8
                The answer in retrospect is yes; because we failed in mixing things up enough and what we did clearly failed.

                Of course easy to answer this now.

                Dom made the call to let Woody single cover Fitz all over the field most of the game instead of let Williams take him and double him with a safety over the top. Maybe we should have tried the other route more and turned Woodsen loose on some blitzes.

                I don't know anymore; I feel we all need some rehab and it ain't coming soon.
                TERD Buckley over Troy Vincent, Robert Ferguson over Chris Chambers, Kevn King instead of TJ Watt, and now, RICH GANNON, over JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY LEONARD. Thank you FLOWER

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bretsky
                  The answer in retrospect is yes; because we failed in mixing things up enough and what we did clearly failed.

                  Of course easy to answer this now.

                  Dom made the call to let Woody single cover Fitz all over the field most of the game instead of let Williams take him and double him with a safety over the top. Maybe we should have tried the other route more and turned Woodsen loose on some blitzes.

                  I don't know anymore; I feel we all need some rehab and it ain't coming soon.
                  Yeah, we didn't get it done with cover.

                  The big advantage to zone blitz is you show a lot of blitz looks and then do it when you have an opening.

                  For instance, Beanie Wells can't blitz pickup very well yet, etc.

                  The problem is we don't really have an ILB that can get home.

                  Our best blitz guys are a corner and the two safeties.

                  We need backers who can really tear ass up from the inside.

                  We are a season away.

                  You can nail Dom for not preparing properly, but I really feel he was several cards short in the game and Whiz just out finessed him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by KYPack
                    Originally posted by Bretsky
                    The answer in retrospect is yes; because we failed in mixing things up enough and what we did clearly failed.

                    Of course easy to answer this now.

                    Dom made the call to let Woody single cover Fitz all over the field most of the game instead of let Williams take him and double him with a safety over the top. Maybe we should have tried the other route more and turned Woodsen loose on some blitzes.

                    I don't know anymore; I feel we all need some rehab and it ain't coming soon.
                    Yeah, we didn't get it done with cover.

                    The big advantage to zone blitz is you show a lot of blitz looks and then do it when you have an opening.

                    For instance, Beanie Wells can't blitz pickup very well yet, etc.

                    The problem is we don't really have an ILB that can get home.

                    Our best blitz guys are a corner and the two safeties.

                    We need backers who can really tear ass up from the inside.

                    We are a season away.

                    You can nail Dom for not preparing properly, but I really feel he was several cards short in the game and Whiz just out finessed him.
                    The Pack couldn't get home because Warner was red hot. My number 1 "Worst Fear" (you can look at the thread) going into the game was Warner's three step drop. The ball was out of his hand too quickly for any blitz to be effective.
                    No longer the member of any fan clubs. I'm tired of jinxing players out of the league and into obscurity.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by KYPack
                      Originally posted by Bretsky
                      The answer in retrospect is yes; because we failed in mixing things up enough and what we did clearly failed.

                      Of course easy to answer this now.

                      Dom made the call to let Woody single cover Fitz all over the field most of the game instead of let Williams take him and double him with a safety over the top. Maybe we should have tried the other route more and turned Woodsen loose on some blitzes.

                      I don't know anymore; I feel we all need some rehab and it ain't coming soon.
                      Yeah, we didn't get it done with cover.

                      The big advantage to zone blitz is you show a lot of blitz looks and then do it when you have an opening.

                      For instance, Beanie Wells can't blitz pickup very well yet, etc.

                      The problem is we don't really have an ILB that can get home.

                      Our best blitz guys are a corner and the two safeties.

                      We need backers who can really tear ass up from the inside.

                      We are a season away.

                      You can nail Dom for not preparing properly, but I really feel he was several cards short in the game and Whiz just out finessed him.
                      Spot on.

                      Warner isn't particularly susceptible to the blitz, but he does have problems with pressure up the middle. That is what we didn't have.

                      It amazes Ty how packer fans can ignore the fact that we were told repeatedly that it takes 2 years to transition to the 3-4...for whatever reason..players, learning curve, etc.

                      Without DC we don't make the playoffs. DC was a victim of his own success.

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                      • #12
                        I agree with the others. A blitz is worthless if you aren't getting any push up the middle, which we weren't. Honestly, I don't know if anything would have slowed Warner down. He was lights out yesterday. The Packers blitzed, he got the ball out quickly to the open man. The Packers sat back, he went through his progressions and took what the defense gave him. It was really just a great game from him.
                        Go PACK

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                        • #13
                          The only way we had a chance to rattle Warner was if we did it with our base rush...blitzing would have just opened it up even more. The guy was just red freakin hot. We needed a Jolly or Jenkins tipped ball and never got one.
                          C.H.U.D.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bretsky
                            The answer in retrospect is yes; because we failed in mixing things up enough and what we did clearly failed.

                            Of course easy to answer this now.

                            Dom made the call to let Woody single cover Fitz all over the field most of the game instead of let Williams take him and double him with a safety over the top. Maybe we should have tried the other route more and turned Woodsen loose on some blitzes.

                            I don't know anymore; I feel we all need some rehab and it ain't coming soon.
                            I was saying that early in the game. I didn't like the fact that CW was following Fitz around. If it is Harris locking him up everyplay I don't mind. With CW following him around, they know where are playmaker is coming out of the huddle. Not good in my opinion. I wish they would have committed to taking Fitz out of the game and forcing Breaston and Doucet to beat them. I don't think they confused them all day. I think when it was apparent that you weren't going to stop them, I think bringing the house would have at least changed things up a little. Maybe cause a turnover....

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                            • #15
                              Would another speed rushing OLB opposite CM3 have made any difference? Should we bring back Kampman and use him like we used to use KGB = a situational pass rusher?

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