Tweet
Originally posted by Lurker64
-
nice call.Lombardi told Starr to "Run it, and let's get the hell out of here!" - 'Ice Bowl' December 31, 1967 -
I'm not old enough to judge that so I honestly would not know..Originally posted by Lurker64
What was Hornung's field goal percentage as opposed to Ryan Longwells ? Distances ? I honestly have no idea and I would have to consider those befoer annointing Hornung as being better. He was certainly the better player for the Packers, though.TERD Buckley over Troy Vincent, Robert Ferguson over Chris Chambers, Kevn King instead of TJ Watt, and now, RICH GANNON, over JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY LEONARD. Thank you FLOWERComment
-
Kaeding choked like a dog. Severe glazed ham look after the first miss, he was shot.
He'll make them at the Pro Bowl when nothing's on the line again.Comment
-
Bad call on both of you.Originally posted by sheepshead
Hornung kicked for 4 years for the pack..and if you guys think Mason had problems..then Hornung sucked. Ty is excluding the 2 years he just kicked extra points.
Career:
From 0-19
18 of 28
From 20-29
14 of 21
From 30-39
7 of 24
From 40-49
2 of 11
From 50 plus
1 of 1
Even factoring in the different kicking style and the dual role (hornung is not alone in that) he wasn't a very good kicker..and certainly doesn't even deserve to be listed anywhere close to the top packer kicker.Comment
-
Totally different era in kicking before the soccer style showed upOriginally posted by Tyrone Bigguns
Through out the '60s, the really good straight on kickers hit 55-65%. Lots of factors, not the least of which is that the hashmarks were a lot wider (closer to the sidelines), so most kicks were from greater angles at similar distances. When they moved the hashmarks in, FG% went up immediately.
Kickers didn't use "kicking balls", all games were outdoors, fields didn't have near the drainage or water handling capabilities, etc. Few kickers were specialists, the starting QB was often the holder, and the snappers weren't specialists. It just wasn't an emphasized play, and wasn't practiced like now.
Straight-on kickers had a max range of about 50 yards under good conditions. As I recall, Hornungs lone 50 yard attempt was on a free kick. They used to report that "so and so" had a 50 yard attempt, it was that much of a novelty.Comment
-
Of course it was a different era. And, maybe you didn't notice that Ty noted this "kicking style."Originally posted by Patler
Regardless of kicking style, Hornung wasn't a good kicker. He didn't rate at the top in his own era.
Let me put it to you this way, Jim Bakken wasn't missing field goals from 0-19. Capelleti was 46-53 from that range. Mercer was 28-31. Fred Cox was 55-57.
Talking about Hornung as a good kicker is just foolish. Actually thinking he was the packer's greatest kicker is asinine. Don Chandler was a better kicker.
Hornung shouldn't even be discussed as one of the greatest packer kickers. Jacke, Longwell, Stenerud, Marcol, Crosby, and perhaps Del Greco were better.Comment
-
Oh Ty, sometimes you are just too easily baited.Originally posted by Tyrone Bigguns
Of course I noted Ty's reference to "kicking style". Maybe Ty didn't notice that I in no way shape or form suggested that Hornung was one of the greatest Packer kickers of all times, nor did the original comment if read carefully?
Perhaps Ty failed to notice the difference between "the greatest Packer who was also a kicker" which was the original comment, and Ty's foolish argument concerning "the top Packer kicker" or "the Packers greatest kicker." A subtle difference, but a significant one. It does not surprise me that Ty missed it in his zeal to insult and ridicule.
However, even missing the difference, arguing as Ty did in the first post by seemingly comparing percentages then to percentages now was asinine.
Good Morning Ty.
Comment
-
Do the special 'K' for kicking balls help or hurt placekickers? My impression is that they hurt them, as the kickers preferred to rub the shine off them before the game. But to be honest, it has been mostly punters that have discussed this. I do not recall placekickers' opinions on the matter.Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.Comment
-
Some said the benefit when they first went to "K" balls, and even earlier when they generally started caring for balls better during the game in the '70s, was that the balls were clean. With the indoor stadiums, the new "mudless" fields outdoors and the like, its probably a mostly moot concern today.Originally posted by pbmaxComment
-
In terms of Packer history, I think you can only say that Longwell was the best, followed closely by Jan Stenerud. Kicking statistics tell everything with kickers (even when it comes to kicking off, neither of which were strong in that area for the Packers - although I didn't look up those stats).
Longwell kicked for 9 years here and has Stenerud beat by 0.8% (81.6% - 80.8%) in field goal %. Stenerud was a Packer for a shorter time also - 3 1/2 years. Longwell was more consistent (72% vs. 57%) from 40-49, which I think is the money range, as far more kicks are attempted from that distance than 50+, and most kickers probably hit about 90% from 39 and in. Certainly those in consideration for any type of "best of" debate do so. Stenerud did have one year (1981) for the Pack where he made 92% (22 of 24), which is the best year ever for a Packer kicker. Longwell's best year was 2003 (88% - 23-26).
Thus far, Crosby would be the third best at 78% career-to-date. Jacke is 4th at 76.2% kicker for the Pack. Both of these guys gave better hangtime and kicked deeper on kickoffs as I recall, than both Longwell and Stenerud, so depending on the weight you may place on that, there may be an argument for one of these two guys.
Crosby seems to be stellar when it comes to specialty kickoffs, including consistently delivering picture-perfect onside kicks when the situation calls for one.Comment
-
Vince; I think your summary is right on; but you missed an important consideration (especially with the Packers the last few years). Crosby looks to be the best tackler!
Comment
-
Actually, I'd give that nod to John Anderson, who also had a 100% field goal % for the Pack!
Comment
-
The way I remember it, both kicks and punters were hurt by the change to the "K" balls as they were not able to rub and doctor them the way they used to.Originally posted by pbmaxGo PACKComment
-
Jason Hanson has made a solid 18 year career kicking in safe elements in Detroit.Originally posted by Joemailman
If you estimate that half of the teams play indoors and the other outdoors, an indoor kicker only kicks outside 4 times per year and as opposed to the 12 times per year an outdoor kicker does it. I think it really skews stats.Comment
-
So, let's get this straight...you post a long diatribe about the differences in style and era, which i noted. Basically talking about something that has no bearing on my post..since my post was about hornung. Then, why not just post it and not respond to my post. Then you post that i'm easily baited. Why are you trying to bait someone, if you arent' trying to establish a position. Hmm.Originally posted by PatlerOh Ty, sometimes you are just too easily baited.Originally posted by Tyrone Bigguns
Of course I noted Ty's reference to "kicking style". Maybe Ty didn't notice that I in no way shape or form suggested that Hornung was one of the greatest Packer kickers of all times, nor did the original comment if read carefully?
Perhaps Ty failed to notice the difference between "the greatest Packer who was also a kicker" which was the original comment, and Ty's foolish argument concerning "the top Packer kicker" or "the Packers greatest kicker." A subtle difference, but a significant one. It does not surprise me that Ty missed it in his zeal to insult and ridicule.
However, even missing the difference, arguing as Ty did in the first post by seemingly comparing percentages then to percentages now was asinine.
Good Morning Ty.
I saw what was originally posted.......and the person then hedged. But, the ORIGINAL comment was not as you say. The original was "Shouldn't that be Paul Hornung?" Followed by his hedge. Nice try, though. The original comment was in response to longwell being the best/greatest kicker. You are wrong. The argument is about that. The poster then notes he was the greatest player who kicked.
And, if we are going on the subtle..then I could argue Kramer was the greatest who also kicked.
Hornung was not our top kicker nor our greatest kicker....and all the rest of your patler argument is just bs, and you know it.
And, Ty NEVER compared percentages then to today. Didn't do it...didn't "seemingly" either. Find it. Ty merely posted his numbers. Ooops.
The simple fact is that good kickers of any era...well, can't speak of the 40s and such made their field goal inside the 20. Kramer did it, Cox did it, Groza did it, etc. Hornung wasn't good inside the 20. And, that is all Ty needs to establish that he wasn't our greatest kicker.
good afternoon.Comment
Comment