Peyton Manning

[Scott Campbell]

No, the kicker is panned because he spoke out about both his coach and teammates in trying to explain why they had had repeated playoff failures. He said nothing that thousands of other people haven't said (tightened up, choked, something along those lines) but it is different when a teammate does it.

Vanderjagt also suffered because he a) was a kicker and is not viewed the same as an offensive lineman or LB, b) not long after this incident he was hurt and started to have trouble kicking and c) he did not seem to realize that a player saying these things publicly was going to come back and bite him in the butt. It was predictable.

None of that proves that he really is an "idiot", or that he was "drunk" (I think it was a radio interview) or that he is a bad guy. But he took a huge step to the forefront when he made his statement publicly and got blasted by the fallout. Probably not what he intended.

I'm old school. Kickers should be seen and not heard.

[hoosier]

No, the kicker is panned because he spoke out about both his coach and teammates in trying to explain why they had had repeated playoff failures. He said nothing that thousands of other people haven't said (tightened up, choked, something along those lines) but it is different when a teammate does it.

Vanderjagt also suffered because he a) was a kicker and is not viewed the same as an offensive lineman or LB, b) not long after this incident he was hurt and started to have trouble kicking and c) he did not seem to realize that a player saying these things publicly was going to come back and bite him in the butt. It was predictable.

None of that proves that he really is an "idiot", or that he was "drunk" (I think it was a radio interview) or that he is a bad guy. But he took a huge step to the forefront when he made his statement publicly and got blasted by the fallout. Probably not what he intended.

I'm old school. Kickers should be neither seen nor heard.

Fixed.

[Gunakor]

Don't understand all the hate on Manning, he has been nothing but a class act his whole career. Guess some just hate because they know he will break some of Favre's records.

I don't hate Manning. But a "class act"? What year was it he threw his O-line under the bus during a post game interview? Don't remember, but many were cutting him down at that point.

My memory is a bit hazy, so I don't remember him cutting down his OL, but I do remember his profound comments about his "idiot kicker" a few years back when Vanderjagt was still a Colt. He's far from a class act IMO.

Does anybody here recall Manning ever publicly accepting responsibility for any of his mistakes the same way he publicly blames others for theirs?

Manning prob takes care of his O-line more than anyone in the league. I remember watching a pre SB clip about the Colts O-line and how closed they were to Manning. I did find this article mentioning a few things from the clip. http://www.nola.com/superbowl/index....fensive_l.html

Also do you even remember what that "idiot kicker" said? If you did you wouldnt be saying Manning is far from a class act because "idiot" was prob the nicest word you could have used there. How the hell is a kicker going to call one of the greastest QBs to ever play the game soft?

A classy person would have said nothing in retort at all.

So would a doormat. Vanderwhatchamacallit was in idiot kicker. Peyton was right to speak up and put that guy in his place.

He was also the most accurate FG kicker in NFL history. Not bad for an idiot.

Manning could have just blown it off. Or at the very least handled it privately, out of public view.

[pbmax]

No, the kicker is panned because he spoke out about both his coach and teammates in trying to explain why they had had repeated playoff failures. He said nothing that thousands of other people haven't said (tightened up, choked, something along those lines) but it is different when a teammate does it.

Vanderjagt also suffered because he a) was a kicker and is not viewed the same as an offensive lineman or LB, b) not long after this incident he was hurt and started to have trouble kicking and c) he did not seem to realize that a player saying these things publicly was going to come back and bite him in the butt. It was predictable.

None of that proves that he really is an "idiot", or that he was "drunk" (I think it was a radio interview) or that he is a bad guy. But he took a huge step to the forefront when he made his statement publicly and got blasted by the fallout. Probably not what he intended.

I'm old school. Kickers should be neither seen nor heard.

Fixed.

Back in the day, kickers had to play another position too. Like Left Tackle. If Lou Groza criticized his QB, Manning would have had to listen or Groza would have let Big Daddy Lipscomb crush his kidney.

[Gunakor]

Don't understand all the hate on Manning, he has been nothing but a class act his whole career. Guess some just hate because they know he will break some of Favre's records.

I don't hate Manning. But a "class act"? What year was it he threw his O-line under the bus during a post game interview? Don't remember, but many were cutting him down at that point.

My memory is a bit hazy, so I don't remember him cutting down his OL, but I do remember his profound comments about his "idiot kicker" a few years back when Vanderjagt was still a Colt. He's far from a class act IMO.

Does anybody here recall Manning ever publicly accepting responsibility for any of his mistakes the same way he publicly blames others for theirs?

Manning prob takes care of his O-line more than anyone in the league. I remember watching a pre SB clip about the Colts O-line and how closed they were to Manning. I did find this article mentioning a few things from the clip. http://www.nola.com/superbowl/index....fensive_l.html

Also do you even remember what that "idiot kicker" said? If you did you wouldnt be saying Manning is far from a class act because "idiot" was prob the nicest word you could have used there. How the hell is a kicker going to call one of the greastest QBs to ever play the game soft?

A classy person would have said nothing in retort at all.

So he is a classless player because his kicker got drunk and called him out and Manning responded by calling him an idiot. Wow what a jackass

What proof do you have that Vanderjagt was actually drunk when he said that?

Besides, Manning isn't the greatest big game QB. I'd have called him out right after the game where he threw 6 INT's to the Chargers, at home, in a playoff game. I think Vanderjagt was still their kicker that year, I can't remember. He threw the killer game icing INT to the Saints in the SB this year too, which only further validates what Vanderjagt said. Manning is more responsible for the Colts playoff failures than Vanderjagt was, that much is certain. So there was some truth to what Vanderjagt said. Maybe Manning should have just kept his mouth shut and played better in big games.

[swede]

I feel compelled to add something here: if he succeeds in precipitating another 254 pages of posts Manning will have caught and surpassed another one of Favre's records.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I feel compelled to add something here: if he succeeds in precipitating another 254 pages of posts Manning will have caught and surpassed another one of Favre's records.

LOL

[Brandon494]

Don't understand all the hate on Manning, he has been nothing but a class act his whole career. Guess some just hate because they know he will break some of Favre's records.

I don't hate Manning. But a "class act"? What year was it he threw his O-line under the bus during a post game interview? Don't remember, but many were cutting him down at that point.

My memory is a bit hazy, so I don't remember him cutting down his OL, but I do remember his profound comments about his "idiot kicker" a few years back when Vanderjagt was still a Colt. He's far from a class act IMO.

Does anybody here recall Manning ever publicly accepting responsibility for any of his mistakes the same way he publicly blames others for theirs?

Manning prob takes care of his O-line more than anyone in the league. I remember watching a pre SB clip about the Colts O-line and how closed they were to Manning. I did find this article mentioning a few things from the clip. http://www.nola.com/superbowl/index....fensive_l.html

Also do you even remember what that "idiot kicker" said? If you did you wouldnt be saying Manning is far from a class act because "idiot" was prob the nicest word you could have used there. How the hell is a kicker going to call one of the greastest QBs to ever play the game soft?

A classy person would have said nothing in retort at all.

So he is a classless player because his kicker got drunk and called him out and Manning responded by calling him an idiot. Wow what a jackass

What proof do you have that Vanderjagt was actually drunk when he said that?

Besides, Manning isn't the greatest big game QB. I'd have called him out right after the game where he threw 6 INT's to the Chargers, at home, in a playoff game. I think Vanderjagt was still their kicker that year, I can't remember. He threw the killer game icing INT to the Saints in the SB this year too, which only further validates what Vanderjagt said. Manning is more responsible for the Colts playoff failures than Vanderjagt was, that much is certain. So there was some truth to what Vanderjagt said. Maybe Manning should have just kept his mouth shut and played better in big games.

Dude I don't know what your trying to prove here. Its a reason the Colts didn't win a SB until they got rid of Vanderjagt. Yea he was once the most accurate kicker in the game but choked almost every year in the playoffs. Its also a reason Manning just won the MVP award and Vanderjagt can't even get a job in the CFL.

I don't know if he was drunk or not but what I do know is as a kicker you don't call out of QB or your head coach like he did. Also the comments came after a 41-0 lost to the Jets so its not like Manning was the only one who had a bad game. I know your just hating on Manning because you dislike him but get your facts straight. Maybe Vanderjagt should have just kept his mouth shut, ever think of that?

[pbmax]

Dude I don't know what your trying to prove here. Its a reason the Colts didn't win a SB until they got rid of Vanderjagt. Yea he was once the most accurate kicker in the game but choked almost every year in the playoffs. Its also a reason Manning just won the MVP award and Vanderjagt can't even get a job in the CFL.

I don't know if he was drunk or not but what I do know is as a kicker you don't call out of QB or your head coach like he did. Also the comments came after a 41-0 lost to the Jets so its not like Manning was the only one who had a bad game. I know your just hating on Manning because you dislike him but get your facts straight. Maybe Vanderjagt should have just kept his mouth shut, ever think of that?

Can you explain how he choked in 2003? Why must he be unclutch as well as too outspoken?

Vanderjagt had a spectacular 2003 season, becoming the first kicker in the league's history to go an entire season, including the playoffs, without missing a field goal or point-after attempt. (In 1998, Gary Anderson was perfect in the regular season, but missed a field goal attempt in the playoffs.) In the process, he made his first Pro Bowl and was named first team All-Pro. He finished the regular season 37 for 37 in field goals and 46 for 46 in PATs. He was also perfect on 3 field-goal attempts and 12 PATs in the postseason.

[hoosier]

No, the kicker is panned because he spoke out about both his coach and teammates in trying to explain why they had had repeated playoff failures. He said nothing that thousands of other people haven't said (tightened up, choked, something along those lines) but it is different when a teammate does it.

Vanderjagt also suffered because he a) was a kicker and is not viewed the same as an offensive lineman or LB, b) not long after this incident he was hurt and started to have trouble kicking and c) he did not seem to realize that a player saying these things publicly was going to come back and bite him in the butt. It was predictable.

None of that proves that he really is an "idiot", or that he was "drunk" (I think it was a radio interview) or that he is a bad guy. But he took a huge step to the forefront when he made his statement publicly and got blasted by the fallout. Probably not what he intended.

I'm old school. Kickers should be neither seen nor heard.

Fixed.

Back in the day, kickers had to play another position too. Like Left Tackle. If Lou Groza criticized his QB, Manning would have had to listen or Groza would have let Big Daddy Lipscomb crush his kidney.

Good point. Manning would have toned things down considerably if he knew what was good for him. Would he get a pass with "frickin' kicker"?

[Brandon494]

Dude I don't know what your trying to prove here. Its a reason the Colts didn't win a SB until they got rid of Vanderjagt. Yea he was once the most accurate kicker in the game but choked almost every year in the playoffs. Its also a reason Manning just won the MVP award and Vanderjagt can't even get a job in the CFL.

I don't know if he was drunk or not but what I do know is as a kicker you don't call out of QB or your head coach like he did. Also the comments came after a 41-0 lost to the Jets so its not like Manning was the only one who had a bad game. I know your just hating on Manning because you dislike him but get your facts straight. Maybe Vanderjagt should have just kept his mouth shut, ever think of that?

Can you explain how he choked in 2003? Why must he be unclutch as well as too outspoken?

Vanderjagt had a spectacular 2003 season, becoming the first kicker in the league's history to go an entire season, including the playoffs, without missing a field goal or point-after attempt. (In 1998, Gary Anderson was perfect in the regular season, but missed a field goal attempt in the playoffs.) In the process, he made his first Pro Bowl and was named first team All-Pro. He finished the regular season 37 for 37 in field goals and 46 for 46 in PATs. He was also perfect on 3 field-goal attempts and 12 PATs in the postseason.

Like I said "almost" every season.

I do like how the very next season though he ran his mouth again about New England.

After the Colts routed the Denver Broncos in the wild-card round of the 2004 playoffs, he told reporters that the Colts' opponents in the next round of the playoffs, the New England Patriots, were "ripe for the picking," and also said "I think they're not as good as the beginning of the year and not as good as last year" (when they won the Super Bowl). Patriots safety Rodney Harrison fired back at him in an interview, calling him "Vanderjerk". Harrison's teammate, linebacker Willie McGinest, was more temperate in his response, but noted that "there's going to be a whole bunch of plays when he's not going to be out there [on the field]. The rest of his guys will be out there dealing with it." The Patriots eventually defeated the Colts 20-3 and went on to win Super Bowl XXXIX.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Personally, I don't care what Manning said about Vanderjagt.

I do think Manning has mostly underwhelmed in the playoffs. I don't rate QBs solely on regular season stats or championships. It has to be a combination. Right now, I'd rank Manning with Marino and Favre. All three had great regular season numbers, but they failed more often than not in the playoffs.

My top QBs remain Montana, Unitas, Graham, and Elway. After those four, I'd bunch the big winners that played on great teams (Brady, Bradshaw, Starr) with Favre, Manning, and Marino.

[pbmax]

I feel compelled to add something here: if he succeeds in precipitating another 254 pages of posts Manning will have caught and surpassed another one of Favre's records.

You could do that if you start to compare Manning to Brady.

Long before there was the Favre effect on message boards, there were irrational Manning versus Brady threads.

[pbmax]

I do like how the very next season though he ran his mouth again about New England.

After the Colts routed the Denver Broncos in the wild-card round of the 2004 playoffs, he told reporters that the Colts' opponents in the next round of the playoffs, the New England Patriots, were "ripe for the picking," and also said "I think they're not as good as the beginning of the year and not as good as last year" (when they won the Super Bowl). Patriots safety Rodney Harrison fired back at him in an interview, calling him "Vanderjerk". Harrison's teammate, linebacker Willie McGinest, was more temperate in his response, but noted that "there's going to be a whole bunch of plays when he's not going to be out there [on the field]. The rest of his guys will be out there dealing with it." The Patriots eventually defeated the Colts 20-3 and went on to win Super Bowl XXXIX.

He did indeed run his mouth. But that loss, like the one in 2003 cannot be laid at his feet.

[pbmax]

Personally, I don't care what Manning said about Vanderjagt.

I do think Manning has mostly underwhelmed in the playoffs. I don't rate QBs solely on regular season stats or championships. It has to be a combination. Right now, I'd rank Manning with Marino and Favre. All three had great regular season numbers, but they failed more often than not in the playoffs.

My top QBs remain Montana, Unitas, Graham, and Elway. After those four, I'd bunch the big winners that played on great teams (Brady, Bradshaw, Starr) with Favre, Manning, and Marino.

If you want a mix of regular season and playoff success, why Elway in the top 5? Until the entire team was remade to de-emphasize his importance (while cheating on the salary cap), he could not beat the NFC and his biggest post-season accomplishments were beating the Browns, who were not world beaters during that time. They were also coached by Schottenheimer, which gave Elway an unfair advantage.

I think Elway and Marino were the same performer (one with better legs, one with a better release and reading ability) but only one got a chance with an entirely different team. Elway with Shanahan was like Favre with the Vikings, he seemed like the last piece of a near championship team.