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Cromartie > Hawk
Would do that trade in a heart beat.
Would do that trade in a heart beat.
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Man-o-manneschevitz - watching Cromartie on that play is like Antuan Edwards.
Honestly, doesn't he just slow right down and watch the running back go by? And this is a playoff game?
Please tell me how many I'm-on-him-like-a-fly-on-shit plays a player would have to make to make him worth that I-don't-think-I-want-to-tackle-anyone kind of play?"The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."
KYPackComment
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Hawk > Cromartie too. They play different positions. At least Hawk tackles people.Originally posted by Brandon494
Bigger issue is that Hawk is better than Desmond Bishop, so unless we have a comparable player to play ILB in Hawk's place I don't see how this is making our defense as a whole any better. Maybe a tad better on the back end, but our front 7 suffers for it. I say no way to this trade.Chuck Norris doesn't cut his grass, he just stares at it and dares it to growComment
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Right....Originally posted by Gunakor
Thats why Hawk got pretty much no playing time earlier in the season before Chillar got hurt. Hawk is nothing but an average LB. So what if Cromartie isnt the greastest takcler, he is a CB. All I know is Cromarties has shown pontenial in the past while Hawk has looked no better since his rookie season.
To copy from you, the bigger issue is Cromartie is MUCH better than Bush while Hawk is no better than Chillar and slightly better than Bishop. We had the #1 rush defense in the league last season, we need help more in the secondary more than the front 7.Comment
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Good discussion. You have a point about our nickel back, but for one, Bush only plays up if they have 3 injured DBs again. Otherwise we still have either T. Will or A. Harris at nickel and likely one of the young guys that were originally slated ahead of Bush. Second, given Cromartie's history, do you think for a minute he would put the team first and play nickel?Originally posted by Brandon494Comment
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Talent with too much of the field issues. Not worth the risk. Lets hope Pat Lee turns out to be a player.Comment
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It is my opinion that you're downplaying Hawk's role in that #1 run defense. He's a thumper. He's not going to get the tackles because he's taking on blockers. While I would certainly have hoped for more out of a #5 pick in terms of game-changing plays, he's certainly better than average. He isn't great, he isn't amazing. But I think he's good. He's assignment sure and makes it easier for the other LBs to make plays.Originally posted by Brandon494No longer the member of any fan clubs. I'm tired of jinxing players out of the league and into obscurity.Comment
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I'm not downplaying his role, its a reason earlier in the season he was getting hardly no playing time. You don't think Chillar or Bishop could take on blockers ?
Listen I like the guy but Im not going to give him a free pass just because of that. He is a bust as the #5 pick and could be replaced easily. Do you really believe if we lost him for the season and he was replaced by Chillar or Bishop our run defense would drop that much because I dont.
As far as Cromartie I don't see any reason why he would have a problem playing nickel with two veterns like C Woodson and Al Harris ahead of him, thats if Al Harris can come back from his knee injury. If Harris is unable to return thats even more of a season to go after this guy.Comment
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Yes, I think there would be a drop from Hawk to Bishop or Chiller in the role that Hawk plays. Bishop is too inconsistent. Capers admitted that last year when people were asking why he wasn't on the field. He said that when Bishop was more consistent he'd see the field more. As for Chiller, I'm not a scout, but it seems that he plays a different game than Hawk. He's more of a runner and a tackler who seems more likely to be taken out by a guard than to take out a guard. He's sideline to sideline like Barnett but doesn't have the same big hit to him. He's more quick twitch.Originally posted by Brandon494
I think a good analogy of this is back in Hawk's rookie year. Whoever the third down RB was gave an interview about blitz pickup in camp. He was comparing LB's blitzing styles. He said that one LB just had the speed move to try to get around the RB, one LB (I think Barnett) would try to set up the RB and at the last minute dip around, and Hawk would just run over you. Those are three different styles, and I think the current LBs fit those three styles. Chiller is the speed guy without a ton of moves, Barnett's more talented and doesn't make a ton of mistakes, and Hawk just tries to run over you with brute power. He's more equipped to take on blockers than Chiller. That's my opinion.No longer the member of any fan clubs. I'm tired of jinxing players out of the league and into obscurity.Comment
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Two of the three injuries you're referring to are Lee and Blackmon, neither guaranteed to be on the field before Bush.Originally posted by sharpe1027--
Imagine for a moment a world without hypothetical situations...Comment
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Although at least Blackmon appeared to be past Bush on the depth chart.Originally posted by GuinessNo longer the member of any fan clubs. I'm tired of jinxing players out of the league and into obscurity.Comment
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If Bush is really as bad as most people claim, then it's a pretty good bet. Nothing is guaranteed.Originally posted by Guiness
Anyway, I doubt he would be happy playing in a reduced role and I doubt the Packers would pay him the type of money he seems to want for that reduced role. I could be wrong, but a guy that quits on his team doesn't strike me as the type of guy that is going to look at the big picture. Is he really going to put the team's success over his own and be happy with Al and Woodson getting more press/attention? I guess stranger things have happened, but I'm not taking that bet.Comment
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If Hawk weren't the #5 overall pick, rather he were picked by Green Bay in the second round or later, would he still need to be traded if his production were the same as it has been?
The only reason being picked so high would by itself justify a trade is if we needed to free up cap space and concluded Hawk's salary wasn't justified by his performance. We are in no perdicament there. Even if Hawk's production doesn't justify his salary, we can afford to pay it to him anyway. That being the case, there's no reason to trade a solid player when there is no comparable talent behind him on the depth chart. We can afford to overpay him far more than we can afford to lose him.
Where Hawk was picked in the draft several years ago doesn't matter anymore. All that matters is what he does on the field. We don't have anyone behind him that can do what Hawk does better than Hawk does it. If we do, I haven't seen it. I've seen Bishop and Chillar, and they ain't it. Chillar does what Chillar can do better than Hawk can do it, Bishop doesn't do anything better than anybody.
But if Bishop is really the better player, why don't we try to trade Bishop for Cromartie straight up and see where that takes us. Or Chillar even! LOL, think they'd bite? I think they'd laugh. And if Thompson could pull off a trade like that I'd give him Executive of the Year for life.Chuck Norris doesn't cut his grass, he just stares at it and dares it to growComment
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Blackmon has seen the field on defense before Bush previously, when healthy. I think it's a pretty safe bet that he was ahead of Bush on the depth chart again this year.Originally posted by Guiness
As for Lee, I don't know. He was drafted as a press corner, before the switch to Capers. In his rookie preseason he looked like a rookie during preseason, but Bush has looked like a rookie for 3 years now. Lee would not have needed a whole lot of improvement in his game to overtake Bush.
Bush is garbage, and should not be seeing the field other than for ST's. Even when 4 DB's are lost to IR. He's that bad.Chuck Norris doesn't cut his grass, he just stares at it and dares it to growComment
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He's also younger than Pat Lee.Originally posted by GunakorComment
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