Nick Collins Situation

[Fritz]

Rolle's signing had to make Collins's agent smile.

[RashanGary]

Rolle's signing had to make Collins's agent smile.

Yep.

The Packers have the choice to sit back, tender him this year, franchise him next year and franchise him the year after that (essentially making it a 3 year contract, that goes year by year rather than committing huge money and risking injury).

Collins and his agent know that. They know they're only option is to hold out until the season starts.


Ultimately, I think the Packers are going to have to get close to that contract to make Collins happy. I don't think anyone wants the drawn out drama that is going to come with a long contract battle. I hope the Packers recognize they have a great player, he's put his time in and try to avoid the hold out. I hope Collins recognizes that he's not a UFA, the team does have some leverage and rather than force a record breaking deal, flex a little and take maybe 34 million with 12 guaranteed and some incentives tied in rather than making it ugly for a couple million of dollars that the Packers will never part with (they have the power to go year by year and they'd rather go year by year than pay it all up front).

The benefit of waiting until the last moment to work out a deal is that you never have players coming back 2 years later demanding more and you don't have to risk up front money on a player that can get injured. The downfall is that if they continue to ascend, their price goes up. Ted's approach has benefits and downfalls. We just paid a 33 year old tackle 7 mil per year because we let him get to UFA. We've let Collins get to a point where he can legally hold out. That's what happens when you wait. Now we have to play fair and give him close to UFA price or he will hold out and hurt the team. That's the way it works. This is one of the bigger challenges of Ted's style.

[RashanGary]

I like Ted's approach. It really limits the injury risks. Also, even when players do sign early deals, they come back bitching for more (see McKenzie, Boldin, Grant, Driver, Tauscher and others). . . At the end of the day, there is very little benefit to locking up the early deals because they just become trouble.


So you wait, you don't give much up front but you wait until a player has more bargaining power. What you gain in lessening the early risk and lessening the early dollars, you have to pay for by working through more challenging contract situations.

That's where we are. It's a challenging contract, but I think both sides have to work together on this and it can have a happy ending. On our end, I don't think it's worth a million per year to have these hold outs every year. On Collins end, I don't think it's worth a million per year to increase his injury risk after a hold out, to go through the hold out, to make it harder to focus on football, to give up the big up front check all for 1 million per year.

Find a happy middle guys. Make this thing work.

[MJZiggy]

When have Taush or Driver ever come back bitching for more? Ted offered Driver an upgrade. He didn't need to do that. He takes care of the core and I do believe he'll take care of Collins before too long.

Also, when you look at the career ints to determine who's elite, you also have to factor in the length of the career. Reed, Dawkins and Sharper have high numbers, but much longer careers than the others on the list.

[RashanGary]

The main point there was that if you give a player money up front (take on additional risk) in exchange for a better price, you don't really get a better price. The player get's his money up front and if the player outperforms, they go asking for more money anyway, so what was the benefit of the team giving money up front? None. All benefit to the player.

Make them wait, then give them a fair deal. The contract is harder to negotiate when you get close to UFA (that's where we are now with Collins), but there would have been no benefit to locking him up early as he would be bitching 2 years down the road that he's worth more than 3.5 mil per year and we'd get a hold out anyway. Regardless, there is no way around NFL contracts being difficult and while I like Ted's approach, it doesn't take away all of the difficulty. Here we are now, in a difficult situation.

[Bretsky]

TT has the leverage here; Collins has none. This might get a bit ugly here but TT has to play the waiting game on this one........given the state of the salary cap...the Roelle deal just made it worse.

[RashanGary]

I'd say 50/50 right now. It could work out, it could get ugly.

If Collins agent wants to try to force anything more than Collins is worth, it's going to get ugly. Ted's building a history of not getting pushed around. Hopefully some of these past situations help remind these agents that Ted is perfectly willing to take on a long, ugly fight if he knows it's right (see the Brett Favre and Javon Walker dramas). It could be one of the ugly fights, or it could pan out. I think most of that will be up to Collins because the Packers have a solid history of being fair.

[pbmax]

There was an article last year that Driver had, publicly or privately, asked for a contract adjustment each year, for something like 4 straight years. So, yes, I think both of them (Tauscher got adjusted a couple of years into his last multi-year contract) have asked for more and gotten it.

But Collins might not get that second franchise tender. After the first, he would be eligible for the 20% salary increase the second year. That adds up quickly.

[retailguy]

Ted's building a history of not getting pushed around.

I agree with this. He just taught clifton a hell of a lesson about asking for too much money.

[pbmax]

Ted's building a history of not getting pushed around.

I agree with this. He just taught clifton a hell of a lesson about asking for too much money.

I can't tell if this is a critique or not, RG. Unless its a very odd deal, Thompson and Ball just guaranteed less money for a 3 year deal than the franchise tag would have given him for one. And no one would have blinked if they franchised Clifton and then done something longer term with Pickett.

Clifton is averaging under 7 mil per year in the deal and probably can be cut after one year with little dead money and/or cap hit.

And if earlier reports are to be believed, 3 years and 20 million PLUS guaranteed money in line with Flozell Adams' deal (16 mil guaranteed) were Sexton's targets. The Packers gave him the years and the average, but got a much more reasonable guarantee in return (less than half of 16 on a deal that is exactly half as long). That seems to be the definition of fair and equitable, with both sides giving up something.

[RashanGary]

A VERY positive breakthrough on the Collins front:




Signed by the New York Giants, safety Antrel Rolle, five years, $37 million, $15 million guaranteed.

Collins may be locked into free-agent purgatory, but he just found out what a guy with lesser credentials can get on the open market. Given Collins has more Pro Bowl selections (2 to 1), interceptions (17 to 12), passes defended (50 to 34) and forced fumbles (5 to 3) in the same number of seasons as Rolle, it would be reasonable to think he is deserving of a better deal.

Collins' agent, Allen Herman, said he wasn't specifically looking at Rolle's deal because Collins is in a different situation. Rolle was able to negotiate that contract as a complete free agent and Collins comes with first- and third-round draft choice compensation tied to him.

Herman said he thinks there are a number of progressive-thinking teams that will negotiate favorably with restricted free agents who were scheduled to be unrestricted with a salary cap. He said some teams will recognize that a cap will return and by signing players to long-term deals this year, they'll be able to write off big chunks of the contract now, leaving lesser amounts to count in the future.

Asked if he thought the Packers were one of those progressive teams, Herman said yes.

"If you look at what they did with Clifton, it's obvious they're trying to keep the team together," Herman said. "They're right on the cusp of something special."ent situation. Rolle was able to negotiate that contract as a complete free agent and Collins comes with first- and third-round draft choice compensation tied to him."

[RashanGary]

Like we talked about earlier, if Collins and his agent understand that they're not unrestricted, this thing can go smoothly.

Certainly Collins deserves a boat load of money, near the top of his position, but if him and his agent recognize that you don't get record breakers when you're restricted, this thing can work out really well for both sides. I think the Packers want to pay him what he's worth and he wants to get paid what he's worth. I think that can happen now. I was worried about how the Collins camp would view this and I'm not nearly as worried anymore.

I'm going to guess 5 years, 32 with 10 up front and some of it tied to incentives. Just a really good deal for a safety, money up front, fair but not over the top price. Just a good, fair deal that makes Collins a wealthy man and give the Packers a long term deal with one of hteir best players.

[RashanGary]

Ted's building a history of not getting pushed around.

I agree with this. He just taught clifton a hell of a lesson about asking for too much money.

Looked like a pretty fair deal. Clifton never held out, never went public trying to force an issue. There was never a stand. . . It was just normal business and as we're accustomed to with Ted. When a player isn't a total wack job, it goes pretty smoothly.

[Gunakor]

As far as Collins goes, he's one of the best ball hawks in the NFL. He's the fastest safety in the NFL. He's one of the surest tacklers.


Ed Reed - 32
Dawkins - 36
Sharper - 34

Troy Polamalu - 28
Adrian Wilson - 30
Brandon Merriweather - 26
Nick Collins - 26
Antrel Rolle - 27
Bob Sanders - 27
Antoine Bethea - 25
Chris Hope -29


Polamalu is the gold standard right now. Reed was, but is getting older. I guess you could make the case for Collins anywhere between 3 and 10. He's not as accomplished as some of the older players but he's been more effective the last two years than any of them, including Polamalu.

Because of his young age, incredible athleticism, elite tackling ability, health and nose for the ball, I feel comfortable putting him in the top 5. I can see, if you're a hater and want to show up for the free agency period (the one time of year when the Thompson haters have over 2% of the Packer posting volume, so think they are making sense to anyone but themselves), it would be easy to dismiss what Collins does on top of all the other good things that are happening in Green Bay.

Troy Polamalu, Adrian Wilson and Chris Hope are SS. And Bob Sanders is a cripple.

[packers11]

good job Giants for making Nick Collins 10x harder to pay now...

Rolle is so overrated, Collins is way better IMO...