Trades before draft

[DonHutson]

I firmly believe Campbell was a good player in a ridiculous situation. He deserves another shot somewhere.

[Fritz]

ND, if you pulled off the Gaither trade, what do you do with him the first year? Let him compete with Clifton? Make him sit until or if Clifton gets hurt?

I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'm just wondering how that would work. And I'm wondering why, if he's so good, and so young, he could be had for a third or a second round pick. Those guys don't grow on trees. Is there some downside here to the guy?

I heard this rumor on espn radio through the day yesterday. As far as why he'd be traded, all they said on ESPN radio was Baltimore wants Oher to play LT, and Gaither isn't a very good RT for whatever reason, and they have another young guy they like for RT.

If this had come out earlier, 2 weekends ago I was at the State Football Clinic in Madison, and John Harbaugh was a keynote speaker, and sat at the table next to me for breakfast, I would have asked! Of course he was sitting with Brad Childress so I'd rather just pissed on his plate....

Hey, I'm back. I've been lurking, the draft is not really my area of expertise. I come on here to learn most of my draft stuff.

Gaither for a 3rd? Oh yeah, right away. He's quick, strong and huge. He's also a project. The kid just hasn't played very much football. He has a ton of talent, but he's still a work in progress. RDE Antwan Odum of the Bengals (he of 5 sacks against GB) made him look like a fool last year. The kid is like a fast young colt. Lot's of potential, but he can be a very clumsy bugger and get down on himself.

The other thing about him is our staff. I've joined the "is Campen a bum"? club. Do we have the kind of coaches that can mold raw talent? I don't know. That's what Gaither needs, coaching up. Our situation should be good for him. Cliffy, the old pro helping the young LT could be a good deal. Gaither is a good prospect for LT, Oher will be the real deal next year. Balt needs to move the kid and get their OLine solidified. I really don't think we could get a better LT prospect and back-up than Gaither.

Knowing TT, he'll want to wait until Lang becomes a starter at 3 positions.

Well, KY, you and ND are a couple of the posters I trust most, so if your perspective on Gaither is correct, then giving up a third - if indeed that's all it would take - for the future left tackle sounds more appealing then spending the first or second round pick on a rook. Plus you'd then have both those picks to nab players at other positions.

[LEWCWA]

I firmly believe Campbell was a good player in a ridiculous situation. He deserves another shot somewhere.

Campbell is a complete bum. How can anyone still be in this guys corner!

[ND72]

I firmly believe Campbell was a good player in a ridiculous situation. He deserves another shot somewhere.

Campbell is a complete bum. How can anyone still be in this guys corner!

I don't agree with that....Campbell went from being a rookie, to looking pretty good, to being worthless??? Put the guy in the right situation, as in not be switching coaches every other year, and I think he'd be ok.

[jmbarnes101]

I would be all for trading a 3rd round pick for Gaither and hoping our O-Line staff can turn him into a quality replacement for Chad. It would allow us to go defense, defense, and more defense in the early rounds.

I also believe that Campbell is not quite as bad as people think and that he has been adversely affected by the revolving door at coach and offensive coordinator that has seemingly given him a new system to learn every year. Poor kid never had a chance.

[CaliforniaCheez]

We aren't going for any of those players, don't even waste time thinking of trades.

That's the right thought.

With so little football news, subjects like this come up.

Think about it though, there are reasons why a team would want to trade each of those players.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

I would love to see a monster like Gaither step in at LT for the Packers. Question is, how does he fit in to our ZBS? I'd like to defer to ND or one of the other "line experts" on this one. Could a giant like that effectively run-block in our scheme?

[Brandon494]

My question is why are the Ravens trying to trade Gaithers for only a 3rd round pick? They have to know something we don't know. Remember he suffered that pretty nasty injury last season.

[jmbarnes101]

I would love to see a monster like Gaither step in at LT for the Packers. Question is, how does he fit in to our ZBS? I'd like to defer to ND or one of the other "line experts" on this one. Could a giant like that effectively run-block in our scheme?

Not that any of the rest of the players on our line can effectively run-block anyways. We should make this trade and switch back to the way our line was when we had Sherman and one of the best running games in the league. Tauscher and Clifton already know how to operate in it, Gaither would be fine and I suspect Sitton and Lang would be okay as well. Spitz may even improve in that scenario.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

I would love to see a monster like Gaither step in at LT for the Packers. Question is, how does he fit in to our ZBS? I'd like to defer to ND or one of the other "line experts" on this one. Could a giant like that effectively run-block in our scheme?

Not that any of the rest of the players on our line can effectively run-block anyways. We should make this trade and switch back to the way our line was when we had Sherman and one of the best running games in the league. Tauscher and Clifton already know how to operate in it, Gaither would be fine and I suspect Sitton and Lang would be okay as well. Spitz may even improve in that scenario.

Ryan Grant was 7th in rushing with 1250+ yards. As a team I wouldn't say we couldn't block, we finished 14th, one spot behind the Vikings. However, we did avg. 4.3 yds a rush. That's good enough for about 10th best.

One could theorize that our running game only appeared less successful because our passing game was one of the best in the league. The line is also extremely young at the guard position and depth. We could be poised to be one of the best in the league again if we can solve our aging tackle problem.

[Lurker64]

Not that any of the rest of the players on our line can effectively run-block anyways. We should make this trade and switch back to the way our line was when we had Sherman and one of the best running games in the league. Tauscher and Clifton already know how to operate in it, Gaither would be fine and I suspect Sitton and Lang would be okay as well. Spitz may even improve in that scenario.

The interior OL isn't that bad at run blocking, and the guys on the edge can't run-block not because of scheme, but because of age. No scheme can make a guy with bum knees a dominating run-blocker. It's not as though we run a pure finesse zone scheme, anyway, we run a power zone scheme (like a lot of teams in the league: Houston, Carolina, Oakland, Washington pre-Shanahan). Every team runs at least some zone (Minnesota uses it quite heavily, for example). The basic difference is that in zone-blocking you are assigned an area and you block whichever defenders you see in your area, while in man-blocking you're assigned to a specific player or position (e.g. OT blocks down on the 3-tech, guard pulls to kick out the DE, and the TE attacks the play-side LB). The advantage of the zone blocking is that the offense is prepared for anything the defense might do, and the running back (since he doesn't have an assigned hole) can capitalize on any mistakes the defense might make (e.g. overpursuit). The advantage of man-blocking is that if everybody executes their block and the defense doesn't surprise you, you get a big run pretty much every time. The weakness of man-blocking is that the right blitz can really ruin your day, and the weakness of zone-blocking is that pretty much if the defense beats the double team, they win.

Ultimately the run game will get better when we get some young competent guys on the outside. Ultimately in zone blocking you really only have four plays: inside zone left/right and outside zone left/right. When your OTs can't run block that effectively, you lose half of your plays. The best run scheme, however, is one that mixes zone blocking and man blocking, and I believe that's ultimately what we've been doing, while retaining primary emphasis on zone blocking.

The problem with the running game, however, is not the scheme. The scheme is just fine, and with zone runs (unlike say, U-71 runs) the defense cannot simply beat it consistently with the right pressure package. The reason we switched away from Sherman's blocking scheme was largely that it just wasn't working any more. McCarthy, as well as any offensive coach around, understands that the key to successful offense is keeping the defense off balance.

[packers11]

Did not see this happening at all... (Santonio Holmes)



Does this mean Steelers are in play for a receiver ? Trade / FA/ Draft?
T.O.?
Marshall?

[mission]

PFT has had articles for a few weeks now about Gaither and comments from Harbaugh about how he needs to step up his off season work and how he has the "potential" to be great if he applies himself etc...

This "oh now we know why Gaither is on the block" talk recently is no surprise. It's been widely documented that the guy just cannot get motivated.

[jmbarnes101]

Not that any of the rest of the players on our line can effectively run-block anyways. We should make this trade and switch back to the way our line was when we had Sherman and one of the best running games in the league. Tauscher and Clifton already know how to operate in it, Gaither would be fine and I suspect Sitton and Lang would be okay as well. Spitz may even improve in that scenario.

The interior OL isn't that bad at run blocking, and the guys on the edge can't run-block not because of scheme, but because of age. No scheme can make a guy with bum knees a dominating run-blocker. It's not as though we run a pure finesse zone scheme, anyway, we run a power zone scheme (like a lot of teams in the league: Houston, Carolina, Oakland, Washington pre-Shanahan). Every team runs at least some zone (Minnesota uses it quite heavily, for example). The basic difference is that in zone-blocking you are assigned an area and you block whichever defenders you see in your area, while in man-blocking you're assigned to a specific player or position (e.g. OT blocks down on the 3-tech, guard pulls to kick out the DE, and the TE attacks the play-side LB). The advantage of the zone blocking is that the offense is prepared for anything the defense might do, and the running back (since he doesn't have an assigned hole) can capitalize on any mistakes the defense might make (e.g. overpursuit). The advantage of man-blocking is that if everybody executes their block and the defense doesn't surprise you, you get a big run pretty much every time. The weakness of man-blocking is that the right blitz can really ruin your day, and the weakness of zone-blocking is that pretty much if the defense beats the double team, they win.

Ultimately the run game will get better when we get some young competent guys on the outside. Ultimately in zone blocking you really only have four plays: inside zone left/right and outside zone left/right. When your OTs can't run block that effectively, you lose half of your plays. The best run scheme, however, is one that mixes zone blocking and man blocking, and I believe that's ultimately what we've been doing, while retaining primary emphasis on zone blocking.

The problem with the running game, however, is not the scheme. The scheme is just fine, and with zone runs (unlike say, U-71 runs) the defense cannot simply beat it consistently with the right pressure package. The reason we switched away from Sherman's blocking scheme was largely that it just wasn't working any more. McCarthy, as well as any offensive coach around, understands that the key to successful offense is keeping the defense off balance.

I actually agree with both of you to some extent and maybe the reason I see our run game as just mediocre is because of the tackles. Clifton has never been much of a run blocker and Tauscher is getting old. I like Grant more than most even if he can't catch as well as I'd like, but I don't see us winning a game with just our running game like some teams can do or like we could do when Green and Davenport were running wild. Whatever the reason, I'd like to see that improve. Beyond that, I'm just not a fan of the zone-blocking system that we've employed though that's probably more on our coaches inability to do anything than the system itself.

[RashanGary]

I hear from sources Santonio Holmes may be moved for a pick between the 3rd and 5th rounds.

Pittsburgh has dealt with some drama lately. They are looking to move one of their trouble pieces

- Joe Arrigo

Oh, it already happened, I just got that from my sources.