Early 53 Estimate

[RashanGary]

Wist's main point, that I undersand, is that this year the problem is CB and OLB. Next year it will be something else. Because Ted never focuses on need, we'll never fill those final holes and always be a good, but not great team.

That's why I showed the 2005 roster. We're finding players much faster than we're losing them.

The whole situation (financial, age, quality, depth) has done a 180 from what Ted inherited. Both teams 10-6 then and 11-5 last year were borderline playoff teams. That team was hitting a cap wall, had almost no good young talent and the best players had already seen their best days. This team has a ton of room to spend, most of our good players, their best days are ahead of them and has very little aging talent.

[Bretsky]

I take Wist's point one step further

We are close to a Super Bowl team and I think he feels TT won't deviate away from the long term focus of building a solid team into a short term focus of finding the guys to fill out weakness and win a championship.

I went back and looked at that second round pick. A few things stick out.

Two LB's we might have been interested in went in the five picks before us, and I think a couple others went earlier that round as well.

So while I would have liked to see a pass rushing OLB, they were really picked through at that level and it was a while before the next OLB was drafted.

On the other hand, there were CB's selected shortly after the Packers pick that might have really added quality. So if you of the view that one of our big needs was CB then there was quality/value there IMO.

[mission]

Tempest in a Teapot. And no different that what has gone before.

You can bang this drum all day long PB, and people just won't listen.

Its like last year when everyone was mortally offended by the claims that Nick Collins was unhappy and holding out... everyone got upset when it came out that his dad had passed away... yet no one acknowledged the fact that even his agent claimed he was holding out due to contract issues!

this is exactly it.. colledge was/is/has been the only one so vocal with the media about it.

let your agent do his thing, this is a business afterall... but dont get caught up quoted in the paper and on radio about how you deserve better and all of that.

be a professional.

[pbmax]

this is exactly it.. colledge was/is/has been the only one so vocal with the media about it.

mish, his one public statement was to deny Bedard's report on the radio interview. We have one report (source unknown) without a verifiable record of what he said in the interview.

So that is ONE possible statement of unhappiness.

Less than Harris giving quotes to Wilde and less than Grant's talkativeness during his holdout.

[vince]

Offense(25)
QB(2): Aaron Rodgers, Matt Flynn
RB(3): Ryan Grant, Brandon Jackson, James Starks
FB(2): Quinn Johnson, Korey Hall
TE(3): Jermichael Finley, Spencer Havner, Andrew Quarless
WR(5): Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Brett Swain
T(4): Chad Clifton, T.J Lang, Bryan Bulaga, Mark Tauscher
G(3): Josh Sitton, Daryn Colledge, Marshall Newhouse
C(3): Scott Wells, Jason Spitz, EDS

Defense(25)
NT(2): Ryan Pickett, B.J. Raji
DT(5): Cullen Jenkins, Johnny Jolly, Mike Neal, Justin Harrell, CJ Wilson
ILB(4): A.J. Hawk, Nick Barnett, Brandon Chillar, Desmond Bishop
OLB(4): Clay Matthews, Brad Jones, Cyril Obiozor, Brady Poppinga
FS(2): Nick Collins, Derrick Martin
SS(2): Morgan Burnett, Atari Bigby
CB(6): Charles Woodson, Tramon Williams, Pat Lee, Brandon Underwood, Al Harris, Will Blackmon

Specialists(3)
K(1): Mason Crosby
P(1): Chris Bryan
LS(1): Brett Goode

Maybe Bell sticks if Harris is PUP'd.

[3irty1]

Colledge, Bad attitude and ...

Nick Collins (stayed away from voluntary stuff in 2009), Al Harris (talking to Wilde summer of 2006 or 7), Aaron Kampman (last year wouldn't talk to media until camp), Ryan Grant (an ACTUAL holdout), Greg Jennings (testy interview as he was not as productive as he had been in previous seasons and everyone was speculating why) and possibly Donald Lee (don't remember) have all made perfectly clear (or outright public) that they were unhappy about their contract or playing status on the team.

Colledge has one radio interview reported by Bedard (not sourced to anyone we can identify) in which he expressed his unhappiness with be a RFA instead of a UFA. Each Rat would be mortally offended if the terms of your work conditions changed right before you were about to cash in.

Tempest in a Teapot. And no different that what has gone before.

Of course, he could still suck all season long, but at least we will have video evidence of that.

All those guys you mentioned are not replaceable. Colledge has a false sense of entitlement. The Packers don't need him.

[Gunakor]

Colledge, Bad attitude and ...

Nick Collins (stayed away from voluntary stuff in 2009), Al Harris (talking to Wilde summer of 2006 or 7), Aaron Kampman (last year wouldn't talk to media until camp), Ryan Grant (an ACTUAL holdout), Greg Jennings (testy interview as he was not as productive as he had been in previous seasons and everyone was speculating why) and possibly Donald Lee (don't remember) have all made perfectly clear (or outright public) that they were unhappy about their contract or playing status on the team.

Colledge has one radio interview reported by Bedard (not sourced to anyone we can identify) in which he expressed his unhappiness with be a RFA instead of a UFA. Each Rat would be mortally offended if the terms of your work conditions changed right before you were about to cash in.

Tempest in a Teapot. And no different that what has gone before.

Of course, he could still suck all season long, but at least we will have video evidence of that.

All those guys you mentioned are not replaceable. Colledge has a false sense of entitlement. The Packers don't need him.

Like I was saying yesterday, the only reason the Packers don't need Colledge is if they have 4 better OG's on their roster come September. Otherwise they have to keep him even if only in a backup role. You keep your best 53 players. Colledge's sense of entitlement means nothing to me if he's the best reserve interior lineman I have on my roster. Big guys get hurt, so if Colledge is the best insurance policy I have, that's who I go with.

[Bretsky]

If they don't trade Colledge I still think he will have a chance to be one of the starters at OG. Glad there is plenty of competition now.

[Gunakor]

If they don't trade Colledge I still think he will have a chance to be one of the starters at OG. Glad there is plenty of competition now.

I hope Colledge does win that starting job, because the alternative is Jason Spitz. While I think Spitz might be marginally better as a starter than Colledge at LG, he's substantially better as a backup at all 3 interior OL positions. Big guys get hurt, I just think having Spitz in that reserve role would provide better insurance for us without having to play musical chairs on the OL when someone gets hurt again.

[pbmax]

All those guys you mentioned are not replaceable. Colledge has a false sense of entitlement. The Packers don't need him.

Kampman proved replaceable and Lee might as well.

But we will see about Colledge shortly. I still think he is the best LG on the roster. Only Sitton at guard has performed better. And he isn't moving.

[Patler]

I went back and looked at that second round pick. A few things stick out.

Two LB's we might have been interested in went in the five picks before us, and I think a couple others went earlier that round as well.

So while I would have liked to see a pass rushing OLB, they were really picked through at that level and it was a while before the next OLB was drafted.

On the other hand, there were CB's selected shortly after the Packers pick that might have really added quality. So if you of the view that one of our big needs was CB then there was quality/value there IMO.

From listening to TT and reading his comments, I get the feeling he was not overly impressed with the corners available to him. Time will tell if he was right or not.

[wist43]

You guys are seeing my point... and I do, in fact, see yours. I like this team... I wouldn't be saying I think we're not too far off if I didn't.

I think we're close enough to start being more aggressive in acquiring high end talent at positions of need. That doesn't mean I say trade up to reach for a position; or standing pat and jumping your board to reach for position - absolutely not.

What I am saber rattling for is to move up or down to fit your board so as to be in position to draft potential difference makers at positions of need.

As I said, I didn't have time to study this years draft... that's TT's job; and, I have a reasonable amount of faith that TT is a decent talent evaluator, and the Packers have a quality player personnel structure.

So, if TT does his homework, I don't mind dumping a 3rd and/or 4th to move up to address a need. Where you get into trouble is when you move up to address need, and then reach for a guy - again, that is TT's job to get that right. He went up and got Burnett... nice move IMO.

However, for the drafting of a TE and two DE's at the expense of moving up or down to target CB and LB is nonsensical to me. As I've made my case for this in other threads I won't belabor the point.

In total, all these guys may be good players down the line, but other than Burnett and maybe Bulaga, TT didn't do much to advance us this year, or maybe even next year, assuming player loses or dropoff (Harris).

I'm much more concerned about CB and LB than most of you... as Ron Wolf said, "you can never have enough corners"; and in a 3-4 you need your LB's to be playmakers - we have one, Matthews; and 3 JAG's. I like Jones, but the overall mediocrity that is the 3 of them... I think will sufficiently hold this team back - we needed front seven help, but it is much more glaring at LB - and what's missing isn't depth, what's missing is front line talent - the depth is on the field.

[Lurker64]

I think you might be underestimating how much we helped out the offensive line this year. If we could protect Rodgers better last year, we probably win against Tampa Bay, at least one against Minnesota, and that playoff game against the Cardinals.

Defense last year cleaned up against mid-level QBs, but struggled against elite ones. But the offense definitely demonstrated that they can keep up with elite QBs in a shoot-out. Who knows, maybe another year in the system and a refinement of the scheme will make the defense incrementally more effective against elite QBs.

[wist43]

I think you might be underestimating how much we helped out the offensive line this year. If we could protect Rodgers better last year, we probably win against Tampa Bay, at least one against Minnesota, and that playoff game against the Cardinals.

Defense last year cleaned up against mid-level QBs, but struggled against elite ones. But the offense definitely demonstrated that they can keep up with elite QBs in a shoot-out. Who knows, maybe another year in the system and a refinement of the scheme will make the defense incrementally more effective against elite QBs.

To me, the offense was never the problem... the defense was always my main concern, I figured we'd score pts.

TT drafted defense to be sure, but other than Burnett, he didn't address his weakest position at all, and likewise didn't address a glaring lack of depth and development at CB. Instead, he restocked an already solid position and ignored CB, essentually saying Lee is a player.

Maybe he really thinks Lee is a player, but man he looked completely out of his league and overmatched every time we saw him. I wrote him off a while ago... hasn't even entered into my thinking at the position. Lee is the gamble here I guess.

[Patler]

However, for the drafting of a TE and two DE's at the expense of moving up or down to target CB and LB is nonsensical to me. As I've made my case for this in other threads I won't belabor the point.

In total, all these guys may be good players down the line, but other than Burnett and maybe Bulaga, TT didn't do much to advance us this year, or maybe even next year, assuming player loses or dropoff (Harris).

I'm much more concerned about CB and LB than most of you... as Ron Wolf said, "you can never have enough corners"; and in a 3-4 you need your LB's to be playmakers - we have one, Matthews; and 3 JAG's. I like Jones, but the overall mediocrity that is the 3 of them... I think will sufficiently hold this team back - we needed front seven help, but it is much more glaring at LB - and what's missing isn't depth, what's missing is front line talent - the depth is on the field.

Reading between the lines of some of his comments, I think TT would have liked to get a corner and/or an OLB, too; but when the options were presented, he didn't like them any better than what he had on the roster already, nor anywhere near as well as players available at other positions.

TT wasn't about to take a corner or OLB just to take one.