Interesting article on broken tackles

[RashanGary]

Grant is a good player. After the top players, he's right in the pack of really good RB's.

If something better comes along, fine, nab it up. Until then, I'm satisfied with Grant. He can get the job done.

[HarveyWallbangers]

If you need to know...

Clear Upgrades (12)

Chris Johnson
Steven Jackson
Maurice Jones Drew
Adrian Peterson
Ray Rice
Jonathan Stewart
Frank Gore
DeAngelo Williams
Michael Turner
Rashard Mendenhall - NOPE
Matt Forte - NOT A CHANCE

Probable Upgrades/Draws (6)

Marion Barber
Thomas Jones
Cedric Benson
Clinton Portis
Ronnie Brown
Ricky Williams

Mendenhall and Forte are CLEAR upgrades? Hardly. In fact, I'd take Grant over Forte. Mendenhall is close, but he fumbles more too much. At one point, I would have taken Barber, but not anymore. He isn't the same player he was when he came into the league. His physical running style has already taken a toll. Benson? What? He's had one good year, and Grant had more yards and receptions and had a better yards/carry average in Benson's best year. Portis? Not anymore. His 2176 career carries has taken its toll. Williams? He's 33 and how could you trust him enough to take him over Grant? Ronnie Brown? No. He can't stay healthy. For me, that would put Grant at #12.

[get louder at lambeau]

How is a RB with zero receiving skills a good fit for our offense?.

Grant caught a higher percentage of passes thrown to him than 10 of the 12 guys on your "Clear Upgrades" list, and averaged more yards per reception than half the guys on that same list.

[Guiness]

Quick! Rename this the 'Lotsa Grant Love' thread

I think the problem with Grant has always been that he can't carry a team, win a game the way an 'elite' back can take control. It's hard to judge - when the O-line struggles, he seems to disappear. But don't all backs? When first contact is in the backfield, how many backs can still manage to succeed? Barry Sanders has been gone a long time...

[The Leaper]

The fumble fetish some of you people have is downright hilarious.

Ahman Green...fumbles and all...is head and shoulders above Ryan Grant as a running back. In his prime, I'd take him in an instant over Grant.

Knocking a RB for having 3 or 4 fumbles a year is ludicrous. Grant himself had 4 fumbles in 2008. So are you going to rip him a new one for that?

[The Leaper]

Grant caught a higher percentage of passes thrown to him than 10 of the 12 guys on your "Clear Upgrades" list, and averaged more yards per reception than half the guys on that same list.

Grant had a mere 25 receptions as the workhorse back for the Packers. That is an extremely low number for a guy on the field for as many plays as Grant is. It was even worse in 2008...18 measley receptions.

If you want to jump on the "Grant is a decent receiver" bandwagon...so be it. You are going to look funny being the only person on the bandwagon though.

[The Leaper]

Mendenhall and Forte are CLEAR upgrades? Hardly. In fact, I'd take Grant over Forte.

I'll admit that Grant is probably a slightly better runner than Forte. Forte obviously hasn't been blessed with any kind of passing game to help him out, but he's not a great runner regardless. However, he's 3 times the receiver Grant is. The guy catches 60 balls a year.

Mendenhall is close, but he fumbles more too much.

Huh? The guy has THREE FUMBLES IN HIS CAREER...and you are going to give him shit for that? Mendenhall is clearly a superior runner to Grant, and he's just as good of a receiver (not saying much, I know).

Seriously people...get off the fumble argument. Few NFL RBs fumble profusely...and fumbles are as much dumb luck as anything for RBs. Just because Grant only had one last year doesn't mean he's going to do that every year. HE HAD FOUR FUMBLES IN 2008 FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!

At one point, I would have taken Barber, but not anymore. He isn't the same player he was when he came into the league. His physical running style has already taken a toll. Benson? What? He's had one good year, and Grant had more yards and receptions and had a better yards/carry average in Benson's best year. Portis? Not anymore. His 2176 career carries has taken its toll. Williams? He's 33 and how could you trust him enough to take him over Grant? Ronnie Brown? No. He can't stay healthy. For me, that would put Grant at #12.

My point was simply pertaining to guys who could replace Grant in our lineup without any real loss in production. I'm not saying that I want to replace Grant with some of these guys...just that I think these guys could perform equally to Grant in our offense.

[Lurker64]

I very much like Grant's production to cost ratio, as he's getting paid a modest amount by NFL starting RB standards, and he only cost us a sixth round pick to acquire. Moreover, he's good enough that we don't need to reach for a RB at any point in the draft, at least for the next few years.

Certainly, a guy you could upgrade, but Grant is cheap and upgrading him probably wouldn't be.

[get louder at lambeau]

Grant caught a higher percentage of passes thrown to him than 10 of the 12 guys on your "Clear Upgrades" list, and averaged more yards per reception than half the guys on that same list.

Grant had a mere 25 receptions as the workhorse back for the Packers. That is an extremely low number for a guy on the field for as many plays as Grant is. It was even worse in 2008...18 measley receptions.

If you want to jump on the "Grant is a decent receiver" bandwagon...so be it. You are going to look funny being the only person on the bandwagon though.

You realize that we have quite a few good receivers to throw the ball to, right? When they did throw to Grant, he caught a higher percentage than 10 of your 12 "Clear Upgrades" did, and more yards per catch than half of them too, yet you think he has "zero receiving skills". It's not Grant's fault that Rodgers has Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Finley, etc. to spread the ball around to.

Grant was targeted 30 times. 31 other NFL RBs were targeted 30 times or more. Only 9 of them caught a higher percentage of passes throw to them. Only 12 of them had a higher yards per reception average. Only 3 RBs in the NFL who had 30 or more targets bested Grant in both percentage caught and yards per reception.

[Gunakor]

The fumble fetish some of you people have is downright hilarious.

The pass receiving RB fetish you have is also downright hilarious.

FYI, we don't throw very many passes to our RB's. It's not because they're awful pass catchers, it's because that's the offense we run. So no matter how often Grant is on the field, he's not going to have high reception totals. He's not targeted very often. We don't run screens very much anymore. Rodgers is always looking downfield and throws to WR's and TE's. RB's do not factor very highly in our passing attack. It's schemed that way.

For shits and giggles, why don't you tell us all how many passes Grant DROPPED last season. If he had 25 catches then he couldn't have dropped many at all. Rodgers didn't target him very often. If he caught 25, how many did he drop? This ought to be interesting.


EDIT: Just read the above post. So he dropped 5 out of 30 balls thrown his way. Nothing to get too concerned about IMO. Not exactly hands of stone.

Leap, I think your problem is with the offense we run rather than the RB who starts in it. Schematically, we don't do what you'd like to see us do.

[Tarlam!]

As a fan without an eye for the actual game, I tend to look at stats to be able to compare players. I can't really tell if Grant does his job that much better or worse than his peers anymore than I can tell which of the 3 FBs contribute the most when they're on the paddock.

It's not as obvious for me as, say, when a lineman misses a block and Rodgers gets pressured or hit.

The other thing that I find difficult when trying to make performance judgements is knowing what the play actually calls the players to do. Or, what the coaching staff ask the players to do.

What is easy for my untrained eye to decipher are "big plays", like the one where Grant ran straight through the defense in Dallas a couple of seasons ago. The Packers lost that game, but that was a big play. For my money, I would like a RB that had a bigger share of big plays, despite having a high octane passing attack.

What strikes me about Grant in his interviews is his quiet, but confident demeanor. He's not one to make excuses, doesn't talk a great game and seems to be a natural team mate. If, indeed, that's more than just an image for the public, then he could be marked down as a valuable locker room presence.

There's no question for me, though, that a young Green brought more to the field than Grant.

[Gunakor]

I'm not as concerned with the big play as others. We have plenty of quick strike ability through our passing game if we absolutely need it. Our running game is used to chew clock, not huge chunks of yardage. As long as our running game leaves us with 3rd and 2 and a significant advantage in TOP I have no complaints. Keep that clock ticking, keep those chains moving, keep our offense on the field. If we do that the odds of victory are definitely in our favor, and we'll win an awful lot of football games.

[Fritz]

I love that Grant doesn't fumble (exxcept for that Seattle game). And that's who he is as a player: not a home run hitter, but not a guy who's going to make mistakes to cost you the game.

Given the talent at other positions, this seems good enough for me at this position.

[MJZiggy]

I love that Grant doesn't fumble (exxcept for that Seattle game). And that's who he is as a player: not a home run hitter, but not a guy who's going to make mistakes to cost you the game.

Given the talent at other positions, this seems good enough for me at this position.

I think he redeemed himself in Seattle...

[bobblehead]

I agree with Leaper that Grant could be replaced with about 25 guys in the league and it would be comparable. I disagree that his low fumble rate isn't a big deal. I remember screaming at the TV and throwing shit as Green would fumble on the first play of a series after BF had tossed a pick.

Grant is a solid runner. He is below avg. as a reciever and blocker (pass pro). My biggest gripe isn't that Grant can't run a screen (and he can't), but that MM doesn't call many screens.

This season will be telling for our RB's. Does Grant still get almost all the carries. Does Jackson develope or is it time to give up on him. Is this rookie worth his salt. TC will be fun from the RB stand point.