Interesting article on broken tackles

[3irty1]

Ryan Grant does have some stone hands but we've had some pretty good success running screen plays with him. Probably because nobody knows its coming, unlike when Brandon Jackson is on the field.

[get louder at lambeau]

EDIT: Just read the above post. So he dropped 5 out of 30 balls thrown his way. Nothing to get too concerned about IMO. Not exactly hands of stone.

Actually it means he didn't catch 5 f the 30 passes thrown to him. 3 were drops, according to profootballfocus.com. The other 2 must have been considered off target passes.

[The Leaper]

I disagree that his low fumble rate isn't a big deal.

Honestly, I don't see a low fumble rate as being a huge positive for a RB...especially for a more finesse guy like Grant. If Grant was a bruiser like Steven Jackson and fumbled as infrequently as he does, then you are on to something.

IMO, it's like the 5th or 6th tiebreaker between guys who are very comparable. To me, it's more about avoiding the RB who has a really high fumble rate. I'm fine with any RB who is around 1% or lower in terms of fumbles per touch...and I'm willing to give more physical players a tad of leeway. Here's a list of the career rates for some of the RBs in the league currently:

A Peterson...20/998 = 2.00%
F Gore...22/1,392 = 1.58%
S Jackson...20/1,829 = 1.09%
M Jones-Drew...11/1,043 = 1.06%
T Jones...24/2,569 = 0.93%
L Tomlinson...27/3,410 = 0.79%
R Grant...6/855 = 0.70%
C Benson...7/998 = 0.70%
D Williams...5/861 = 0.58%
C Johnson...4/702 = 0.57%

So, Peterson fumbles a lot. Gore does as well. Those are guys I'd be more wary of...their history tosses up a red flag. Jackson is slightly over 1%...but given his production and style of play, I wouldn't complain. So, Grant really doesn't have some huge advantage over most other RBs in the league...which is why I don't hold his slightly better than average fumble rate in such high esteem.

[Lurker64]

Grant's not great, but he's okay. I think that with the rest of the offense the way it is, we don't really need a running back who's significantly better than okay. All we really need is to be able to run the four minute offense, and to keep defenses honest. McCarthy has sworn up and down that he wants us to be a running team. We're not going to be one, and that's just fine since you don't need to be an elite running team to win championships as recent years have shown, and we're not going to become an elite running team any time soon without lucking in to an elite back.

We were a top 15 rushing team last year, and I don't think we need to be better than that. There are a truly ridiculous number of draft eligible running backs in who could be great in college football this year, so who knows what next season will hold, but I really don't worry about Grant going forward. We didn't have elite rushing when Wolf was building his championship teams either.

[The Leaper]

We didn't have elite rushing when Wolf was building his championship teams either.

No...but Bennett and Levens were much larger threats as receivers out of the backfield. Sure, they weren't going to scare anyone in terms of just running...but their overall games made them a threat. Grant is just way too one-dimensional for me...he's not a threat. He's not a guy who you can take advantage of matchups with. He's just a runner that picks up yardage...mostly that's given to him by blocking. Yawn.

I personally believe the struggles of Peyton Manning in the postseason can be blamed highly on the fact he's never had a strong threat out of the backfield. We think Favre struggles in big games...well Manning's postseason record is abysmal for a guy of his stature. His only Super Bowl ring came in a playoff run that featured a game won with no offensive TDs and where Manning threw double the INTs to TDs in that postseason. Manning didn't win that title...the Colts defense did. At least Favre typically shined in the postseason during his prime...even without the great WRs to work with. That's because the offense had balance and credible threats at ALL positions.

Manning should be cleaning up right now with all the talent on that offense...but Addai is a mediocre RB just like Grant. It hinders that offense. IMO, RBs are more important than WRs...so Grant's mediocrity is a concern to me. You have to effectively utilize your RBs in more ways than just picking up 3-4 yards on a handoff once in awhile to fully develop your offense.

Sure, Grant is good enough to have a 10 or 11 win team and make the playoffs every year. Is he good enough to help you win a title? I just don't think so.

[Gunakor]

We didn't have elite rushing when Wolf was building his championship teams either.

No...but Bennett and Levens were much larger threats as receivers out of the backfield. Sure, they weren't going to scare anyone in terms of just running...but their overall games made them a threat. Grant is just way too one-dimensional for me...he's not a threat. He's not a guy who you can take advantage of matchups with. He's just a runner that picks up yardage...mostly that's given to him by blocking. Yawn.

I personally believe the struggles of Peyton Manning in the postseason can be blamed highly on the fact he's never had a strong threat out of the backfield. We think Favre struggles in big games...well Manning's postseason record is abysmal for a guy of his stature. His only Super Bowl ring came in a playoff run that featured a game won with no offensive TDs and where Manning threw double the INTs to TDs in that postseason. Manning didn't win that title...the Colts defense did. At least Favre typically shined in the postseason during his prime...even without the great WRs to work with. That's because the offense had balance and credible threats at ALL positions.

Manning should be cleaning up right now with all the talent on that offense...but Addai is a mediocre RB just like Grant. It hinders that offense. IMO, RBs are more important than WRs...so Grant's mediocrity is a concern to me. You have to effectively utilize your RBs in more ways than just picking up 3-4 yards on a handoff once in awhile to fully develop your offense.

Sure, Grant is good enough to have a 10 or 11 win team and make the playoffs every year. Is he good enough to help you win a title? I just don't think so.

That was a different offense that Levens and Bennett were in. They were actually used as pass receivers out of the backfield. We don't do that a whole lot anymore. We could have a Dorsey Levens or an Ahman Green in their prime lining up behind Rodgers and that wouldn't necessarily translate to greater numbers in the passing game for our RB's.

In order for our RB's to put up gaudy numbers in the passing game Rodgers would have to throw the ball to them more often than he throws to Grant or Jackson. While you obviously believe that the cause for us not utilizing our RB's more in the passing game is that our RB's are horrible pass catchers, I believe that the reason we don't utilitze our RB's more in the passing game is because the gameplans MM puts together don't call for our RB's to be heavily involved in the passing game to begin with. IMO it's the scheme, not a lack of talent.

Think about it. Maybe if Rodgers would target Grant as often as Favre targeted Green, Grant would have 50 catches a season too. It's not like Grant is dropping every pass thrown to him. While Grant didn't have very many catches over the last couple of seasons, he hasn't had very many drops either. He can't catch a ball that isn't thrown to him. He'll never be a threat in the passing game if the scheme doesn't utilize him as a threat in the passing game. Neither would Bennett or Levens or Green have been if the scheme didn't call for them to be. You can bitch about MM's play calling, having only targeted Grant with 30 passes in 2009, but you can't really bitch about Grant dropping just 3 balls all season long.

[Scott Campbell]

I think one of the reasons he took so many sacks in the first half last year was that he didn't check down to the RB early enough.

[The Leaper]

That was a different offense that Levens and Bennett were in. They were actually used as pass receivers out of the backfield. We don't do that a whole lot anymore. We could have a Dorsey Levens or an Ahman Green in their prime lining up behind Rodgers and that wouldn't necessarily translate to greater numbers in the passing game for our RB's.

In order for our RB's to put up gaudy numbers in the passing game Rodgers would have to throw the ball to them more often than he throws to Grant or Jackson. While you obviously believe that the cause for us not utilizing our RB's more in the passing game is that our RB's are horrible pass catchers, I believe that the reason we don't utilitze our RB's more in the passing game is because the gameplans MM puts together don't call for our RB's to be heavily involved in the passing game to begin with. IMO it's the scheme, not a lack of talent.

Sorry...but McCarthy's history of playcalling before coming to Green Bay tells me otherwise. When he had talent at the RB position, he used it.

These are all teams where Mike McCarthy was CALLING THE PLAYS:

Saints 2000: Ricky Williams had 44 catches
Saints 2001: Ricky had 60 catches, Deuce McAllister had 15
Saints 2002: Deuce had 47 catches, FBs had another 15
Saints 2003: Deuce had 69 catches
Saints 2004: Deuce had 34, Aaron Stecker had 29 (yep...Aaron F-ing Stecker was more prolific than Ryan Grant in the passing game)
San Fran 2005: Kevan Barlow had 31, Frank Gore had 15, Maurice Hicks had 12

McCarthy's RBs before he came to Green Bay racked up 60+ catches regularly. And that stayed that way when he first came to GB and had talent.

GB 2006: Green had 46 catches, Herron had 29, Morency had 16
GB 2007: Morency had 30, Grant had 30, BJack had 16
GB 2008: BJack had 30, Grant had 18
GB 2009: Grant had 25, BJack had 21

So, your theory that McCarthy's offensive system chooses to not utilize RBs in the passing game is just flat wrong. He's utilized RBs throughout his career. It's just the past 2 years that are bad. I think Rodgers has to take the blame for a little of that...Favre obviously was far better at speading the ball around due to his knowledge of the offense. However, I don't think you can lay the blame entirely with Rodgers. Grant and company just aren't very good...they aren't threats whatsoever out of the backfield. That's why their numbers aren't called.

[Gunakor]

That was a different offense that Levens and Bennett were in. They were actually used as pass receivers out of the backfield. We don't do that a whole lot anymore. We could have a Dorsey Levens or an Ahman Green in their prime lining up behind Rodgers and that wouldn't necessarily translate to greater numbers in the passing game for our RB's.

In order for our RB's to put up gaudy numbers in the passing game Rodgers would have to throw the ball to them more often than he throws to Grant or Jackson. While you obviously believe that the cause for us not utilizing our RB's more in the passing game is that our RB's are horrible pass catchers, I believe that the reason we don't utilitze our RB's more in the passing game is because the gameplans MM puts together don't call for our RB's to be heavily involved in the passing game to begin with. IMO it's the scheme, not a lack of talent.

Sorry...but McCarthy's history of playcalling before coming to Green Bay tells me otherwise. When he had talent at the RB position, he used it.

These are all teams where Mike McCarthy was CALLING THE PLAYS:

Saints 2000: Ricky Williams had 44 catches
Saints 2001: Ricky had 60 catches, Deuce McAllister had 15
Saints 2002: Deuce had 47 catches, FBs had another 15
Saints 2003: Deuce had 69 catches
Saints 2004: Deuce had 34, Aaron Stecker had 29 (yep...Aaron F-ing Stecker was more prolific than Ryan Grant in the passing game)
San Fran 2005: Kevan Barlow had 31, Frank Gore had 15, Maurice Hicks had 12

McCarthy's RBs before he came to Green Bay racked up 60+ catches regularly. And that stayed that way when he first came to GB and had talent.

GB 2006: Green had 46 catches, Herron had 29, Morency had 16
GB 2007: Morency had 30, Grant had 30, BJack had 16
GB 2008: BJack had 30, Grant had 18
GB 2009: Grant had 25, BJack had 21

So, your theory that McCarthy's offensive system chooses to not utilize RBs in the passing game is just flat wrong. He's utilized RBs throughout his career. It's just the past 2 years that are bad. I think Rodgers has to take the blame for a little of that...Favre obviously was far better at speading the ball around due to his knowledge of the offense. However, I don't think you can lay the blame entirely with Rodgers. Grant and company just aren't very good...they aren't threats whatsoever out of the backfield. That's why their numbers aren't called.

And Grant dropped 3 balls all season. If he's so terrible why is he catching almost every ball thrown at him? If he's catching almost every ball thrown at him, why don't they throw at him more? Why has McCarthy's offensive scheme changed? Again, Grant isn't dropping passes. So what in your opinion is he so bad at as a pass catcher that MM isn't using him as much as others?

[The Leaper]

And Grant dropped 3 balls all season. If he's so terrible why is he catching almost every ball thrown at him? If he's catching almost every ball thrown at him, why don't they throw at him more? Why has McCarthy's offensive scheme changed? Again, Grant isn't dropping passes. So what in your opinion is he so bad at as a pass catcher that MM isn't using him as much as others?

He's not a natural receiver. Sure, he can catch a ball that's coming at him...but that is not the final determinant in whether or not you are a good receiver at the NFL level. A RB who is a good receiver needs to be elusive and make guys miss, because they typically won't have multiple beefy OL guys in front of them blocking like a run play. Grant is horrible at that. He's not shifty. He goes down too easily on first contact. He doesn't seem to have a good grasp of when to release into the flat to become a receiver. Back to the fumbles again...I think at least 2 of his 6 fumbles have come as a receiver, so his fumble rate as a receiver is much higher than as a runner.

Again...Grant isn't someone we must upgrade immediately. I just think that for this offense to truly be capable of dominating any defense, we need more of a multi-purpose threat in our backfield. A guy who can catch 35-40 passes and be a threat on the edge to force LBs to play the entire field.

[Gunakor]

And Grant dropped 3 balls all season. If he's so terrible why is he catching almost every ball thrown at him? If he's catching almost every ball thrown at him, why don't they throw at him more? Why has McCarthy's offensive scheme changed? Again, Grant isn't dropping passes. So what in your opinion is he so bad at as a pass catcher that MM isn't using him as much as others?

He's not a natural receiver. Sure, he can catch a ball that's coming at him...but that is not the final determinant in whether or not you are a good receiver at the NFL level. A RB who is a good receiver needs to be elusive and make guys miss, because they typically won't have multiple beefy OL guys in front of them blocking like a run play. Grant is horrible at that. He's not shifty. He goes down too easily on first contact. He doesn't seem to have a good grasp of when to release into the flat to become a receiver. Back to the fumbles again...I think at least 2 of his 6 fumbles have come as a receiver, so his fumble rate as a receiver is much higher than as a runner.

Again...Grant isn't someone we must upgrade immediately. I just think that for this offense to truly be capable of dominating any defense, we need more of a multi-purpose threat in our backfield. A guy who can catch 35-40 passes and be a threat on the edge to force LBs to play the entire field.

So we're talking an additional 5 catches for Grant then. 35 is only 5 more than 30. Kinda funny how it's just a measly 30 catches for our workhorse back but if he had 35 it'd be okay. I bet Rodgers simply spreading the ball around like Favre had would get Grant those 5 additional catches and then some. After all, I didn't hear a peep about this problem with Grant when he was tearing up defenses during the second half of 2007 while Favre was still under center.

Besides, this offense is already capable of scoring against any defense. Last season only one team held us to less than 21 points, the game we beat the Cowboys 17-7. The only team that held us to exactly 21 points was Chicago, having done it twice and losing both times. In all of our losses last season we scored at least 23 points. We scored 35 in a loss to Pittsburgh and 45 in a loss to Arizona. Scoring a lot of points was common. This is an outstanding offense. If our defense holds up their end of the bargain last year and limits opponents to under 21 points we've got a playoff bye and home field advantage. So relax about the offense. They don't do what you'd like them to do, but what they're doing is working. If it ain't broke...

[HarveyWallbangers]

Who were the receivers and tight ends that New Orleans and San Francisco had? I doubt they were comparable to our group. Grant is seldom the primary option on a pass play. Hell, he's not a top four option. I don't think Grant is a great receiver, but most RBs don't really catch balls other than screens and dumpoffs. Grant can usually do that. You don't find too many Marshall Faulks and Brian Westbrooks out there.

[MJZiggy]

Who were the receivers and tight ends that New Orleans and San Francisco had? I doubt they were comparable to our group. Grant is seldom the primary option on a pass play. Hell, he's not a top four option. I don't think Grant is a great receiver, but most RBs don't really catch balls other than screens and dumpoffs. Grant can usually do that. You don't find too many Marshall Faulks and Brian Westbrooks out there.

I was trying to figure out why you'd want to throw to Grant when you have Jennings, Driver, Finley etc. etc. etc.

[Patler]

I personally believe the struggles of Peyton Manning in the postseason can be blamed highly on the fact he's never had a strong threat out of the backfield.

What, the seven years he had with Edgerrin James weren't a strong enough threat out of the backfield? For six of those seasons (in 2001 James played only 6 games) he averaged over 1400 yards rushing and 55 receptions. What more do you want?

...and, in 2001 when James got only 662 yards rushing in six games (with 24 receptions, too) Dominic Rhodes filled in with 1100 yards rushing and 34 receptions, virtually all coming in the 10 games after James was out.

[Scott Campbell]

GB 2007: Morency had 30....

Somewhere out there P just got a chubby.