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**get louder at lambeau** · 06-10-2010, 12:24 PM

Re: Barnett and Driver had knee scopes

Originally posted by rotoworld

We don't want to go overboard, but...

...but we will. Way overboard.

**Joemailman** · 06-12-2010, 06:26 AM

Sounds like Driver had problems nobody knew about.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/96194464.html

Before the surgeries, his right knee had become so inflexible he couldn't bend it, not for squats, not even to pull his ankle back just to do a quadriceps stretch.

Driver, who caught 70 passes for 1,061 yards and six touchdowns last season, didn't say much publicly about his knees in 2009 but pointed out that at some games last season his knees were wrapped to keep them warm and protect them.

Driver's production went down late last year. This should help.

**Fritz** · 06-12-2010, 07:59 AM

Well, here's a question: for an NFL player, is a knee scope still preferable to a colon scope?

**packerbacker1234** · 06-12-2010, 09:05 AM

I wouldn't say it's the "sign of things coming to a close", or "his fantasy value drops".

Thats just poor research. Yes, he did take a decline in the second half of last year that was really unprecidented, but if these new reports are true that he had severely limited movement, I am just surprised he could even keep playing at all. If anything, these "minor" procedures merely gave him that movement back, so he is poised to have a good season. If that movement is back, it's doubtful James Jones unseets him. Driver is a locker room leader and a consistent performer on the field.

I am only more amazed driver kept playing through that last season. Never even got a inkling there was an injury issue with him at all. Guy never complains.

As for barnett - no biggie in my book. He was already coming off injury and this seems like a very minor follow up to some tissue stuff. He should be good to go in plenty of time.

**Lurker64** · 06-12-2010, 05:50 PM

I don't see how a knee scope could indicate the beginning of the end for Driver. Sure, if he was a guy who was primarily asked to stretch the field by beating people deep, he might be slowing a little bit. But that was never Driver's game, he's always been the guy who would work the middle and make the tough catches in traffic. There might be fewer people he can just run away from once he gets the ball, but that wasn't really ever his game either.

Driver is tough and savvy. If he can resolve his drop problem from last year, he'll be fine.

**Scott Campbell** · 06-13-2010, 08:14 AM

Driver's career is like having an old dog. You're just happy to wake up in the morning and find out he's still with you.

**Joemailman** · 06-13-2010, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by Lurker64

I don't see how a knee scope could indicate the beginning of the end for Driver. Sure, if he was a guy who was primarily asked to stretch the field by beating people deep, he might be slowing a little bit. But that was never Driver's game, he's always been the guy who would work the middle and make the tough catches in traffic. There might be fewer people he can just run away from once he gets the ball, but that wasn't really ever his game either.

Driver is tough and savvy. If he can resolve his drop problem from last year, he'll be fine.

I'm actually amazed that Driver was able to play as well as he did on a knee he couldn't bend properly. While I'm not predicting the end is near for Driver, I think a healthy knee is as important to him as it is to a speed guy. Because he is neither big or particularly fast, running precise routes, and the ability to make sharp cuts are a big part of Driver's game. There is a good chance the surgery will help reverse the decline we saw last year. That needs to happen though. Driver's toughness and competitiveness can only take him so far.

**packrat** · 06-13-2010, 09:25 AM

I find the surgery encouraging. A knee scope can be a simple procedure that really clears up problems. It is one of those procedures that you can come back from "like new." No comparison at all to things like an ACL that make it tough to fully regain presurgery condition.

**Patler** · 06-13-2010, 09:50 AM

Driver might have had a few more drops the end of last season, but I don't see that there was any significant decline in his performance otherwise.

Driver
First 8 games - 37 receptions/613 yards
Last 8 games - 33 receptions/448 yards.

Comment - his yards/catch was down the last 8 games at 13.6, but not far off from his career average of 14

Jennings
First 8 games - 34 receptions/498 yards
Last 8 games - 34 receptions/615 yards.

Comment - Notice how close Driver's second half was to Jennings first half, and Drivers first to Jennings second. That has been common for the last few years. In 2008 it was the opposite, Jennings had a huge 1st 8 games, Driver looked to have "aged" (36/466 - close to 2009 2nd half of season). Then, in the second half of the 2008 season, Jennings' yardage went down and Driver had a better second half. (38/546). When Jennings performance goes up, Drover's goes down. When Driver is up, Jennings' is down.

Of course the wild card in the mix was Finley:
First 8 games - 17 receptions/260 yards
Last 8 games - 38 receptions/416 yards.

Comment - the presence of Finley is bound to bring down Drivers numbers, perhaps more than Jennings. Finley competes for the short and mid range passes, Driver's strength, not so much for the long passes where Jennings is more often the target.

**Joemailman** · 06-13-2010, 10:24 AM

Look a little closer Patler. Driver's decline didn't occur over the last 8 games. It was over the last 5. In those games, Driver had 17 catches for 216 yards and 1 touchdown. This included a 6-65 game that meant nothing in warm Arizona. In 4 consecutive cold weather games, Driver just 11 catches for 151 yards. The JSO article mentioned that there were some games where Driver had the knees wrapped for warmth, so cold weather may have made the problem worse. Finley may have been a factor, but there is little doubt that Driver's effectiveness declined as the season wore on.

**Cleft Crusty** · 06-13-2010, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by Scott Campbell

Driver's career is like having an old dog. You're just happy to wake up in the morning and find out he's still with you.

Or like being an old dog. Every morning you wake up it's a surprise. Though, until the daily prescription meds kick in, you sort of wish you hadn't woken up at all.

**Patler** · 06-13-2010, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by Joemailman

Look a little closer Patler. Driver's decline didn't occur over the last 8 games. It was over the last 5. In those games, Driver had 17 catches for 216 yards and 1 touchdown. This included a 6-65 game that meant nothing in warm Arizona. In 4 consecutive cold weather games, Driver just 11 catches for 151 yards. The JSO article mentioned that there were some games where Driver had the knees wrapped for warmth, so cold weather may have made the problem worse. Finley may have been a factor, but there is little doubt that Driver's effectiveness declined as the season wore on.

I don't doubt his knees caused some problems, that wasn't my point. I was referring to the article implication that Driver might otherwise be in significant decline. I don't see it as a big worry from anything that happened last year.

A couple other comments:

1. His five game total of 17/216 is a pretty small sample to get worked up about.
2. In one five game stretch of 2008 he was 18/240, in a four game stretch 14/168.
2. In the four games in which Driver was 11/151, Jennings was 18/362.
3. In those same four games Finley was 24/299.
4. There are only so many pass opportunities available.

**get louder at lambeau** · 06-13-2010, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by Patler

4. There are only so many pass opportunities available.

What a great problem to have. A smart, efficient QB and too many good receivers. Thank you Ted Thompson.

**packers11** · 06-14-2010, 12:23 PM

"I feel so good now," Driver said. "The trainers said, 'You look 25 again.' I had the scope because I want to play until I'm 40. I wanted to extend my career another five years.

"I should have done it years ago," he said. "I played like this for two, three years, with pain. I can jump now. I can squat.

"I didn't say anything about it because I didn't think it was that big of a deal. I'm fine. I feel good now."

breakout season for DD??? 2000 yards?

for rest of story:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/96194464.html