Mini camp updates

[get louder at lambeau]

Sam Shields sounds like Cory Rogers without the gun.

You better hope he doesn't have a gun. Them's fightin' words.

[Lurker64]

Sam Shields sounds like Cory Rogers without the gun.

Well, it's a little bit different. Shields came in without much (any?) punt return experience in college, he was primarily a gunner and we could probably use him for that too. Rogers on the other hand was lauded as a natural punt returner when we drafted him, and then he couldn't catch the damn ball.

I could see Shields making this team purely on the basis of his ability as a special teams gunner and his long term potential as a punt returner. Rogers had no shot to make the team if he couldn't catch the damn punt.

[Fritz]

You're right about the differences but I don't think Shields will make this team unless he can field punts cleanly.

[MJZiggy]

Well SOMEbody better be able to field them cleanly or we have a problem on our hands (so to speak)

[Joemailman]

They'll have someone who can catch a punt. If Blackmon gets hurt, they may not return it very far. But they'll catch it.

[retailguy]

Well SOMEbody better be able to field them cleanly or we have a problem on our hands (so to speak)

we're just fine there.

[packrulz]

How Green Bay Packers roster looks going into training camp
BY PETE DOUGHERTY • PDOUGHER@GREENBAYPRESSGAZETTE.COM • JUNE 26, 2010
Training camp will be the proving ground for whether Green Bay Packers safety Atari Bigby erred by refusing to sign his restricted free agent tender and skipping all of the team's offseason work.

Early signs suggest he did. His absence gave third-round draft pick Morgan Burnett extensive work as a starting safety in the Packers’ organized team activities and minicamp, and Burnett has been perhaps the team’s most impressive rookie in offseason practices.

Jobs aren’t won in May and June, but Burnett is as well prepared as he could have hoped to be to take the starting job from Bigby in training camp.

“Very studious,” safeties coach Darren Perry said of Burnett last week. “You can tell it’s important to him, he’s putting in the time and really wanting to learn the defense as best he can. He’s trying to be a leader. Him and Nick (Collins) have done a good job working together. Still a lot to learn at that position, but he’s taken a lot. Very few mental mistakes.”

Elsewhere in the secondary, even though Al Harris is a compulsive worker, there’s almost no chance the starting cornerback will be practicing at the start of training camp only eight months after surgery on his left knee. Some aspects of recovering from knee-reconstruction surgery take at least nine to 10 months no matter how hard a player rehabilitates.

There’s a possibility the 35-year old Harris won’t take part in camp and will open the season on the physically-unable-to-perform list, which would force him to miss the first six games. The Packers’ medical staff and coach Mike McCarthy will make that decision in August.

Either way, chances are Tramon Williams will start at cornerback opposite Charles Woodson early in the season. If Harris is unavailable, either Brandon Underwood or Pat Lee will play 50 to 60 percent of the defensive snaps as the No. 3 cornerback.

Underwood, a seventh-round draft pick last year, worked ahead of Lee in last week’s minicamp and is ahead heading into training camp. Underwood has the natural feet and hips in coverage of a much higher draft pick but lasted until the seventh round last year because of major concerns about his maturity. Those concerns were borne out to a degree last season with tardiness and again this offseason in a much-publicized incident involving two alleged prostitutes in Lake Delton.

Lee, a second-round pick in 2008, is a little more physical than Underwood, and has a realistic shot at the job after missing most of his first two seasons because of knee injuries.

Jarrett Bush, a swing safety and cornerback as well as a core player on special teams, faces an uphill battle to make the roster for a fourth season.

Derrick Martin, a trade acquisition last year, is the better safety and has comparable special-teams coverage abilities.

Will Blackmon, who is moving from cornerback to safety, is a near lock to make the roster because he’s by far the best return man on the team. Blackmon didn’t practice in the offseason but appears to have made an excellent recovery from knee-reconstruction surgery performed Oct. 29.

Sam Shields, an undrafted rookie of note, looks raw as a cornerback and catching punts.

How other positions look as the Packers end their offseason program and look forward to training camp, which opens July 31.

Defensive line

This could be a position of depth, depending on several factors, most notably whether Johnny Jolly is convicted of felony possession of codeine in his upcoming trial in Houston. Jolly is a good player but a wild card off the field.

Also at defensive end, the Packers used a second-round draft pick on Mike Neal and are looking for him to enhance their inside pass rush. They also found an interesting prospect in the seventh round in C.J. Wilson, who appears to have some pass rush talent.

Jarius Wynn showed more strength as a rookie last year than his 6-foot-3, 285-pound frame might suggest and is another rotational player who will be tough to knock off the roster.

On the other hand, though Justin Harrell has made it through the offseason just fine, logic says the former first-round draft pick faces difficult odds to make the team in his fourth season. Recurring disk problems in his lower back have sidelined him for 26 of 32 games over the last two years.

The Packers have to be deeply concerned that even if Harrell makes it through training camp healthy, he could aggravate his back early in the season and end up on injured reserve. That would leave them empty-handed because the player they cut to keep Harrell probably will have been picked up by another team.

One of defensive line coach Mike Trgovac’s charges in camp is finding an effective inside rusher to team with Cullen Jenkins on passing downs, most likely from the group of nose tackle B.J. Raji, Neal and Wilson.

Linebackers

Brad Jones will be the starting left outside linebacker, where he replaced Aaron Kampman last season after the latter blew out his knee. Jones is not the pass rusher the departed Kampman is, but he’s a better all-around player for the job because of his coverage skills. Jones offers a little more flexibility in defensive coordinator Dom Capers’ play calling.

The Packers potentially have left themselves painfully thin behind starters Jones and Clay Matthews. Brady Poppinga plays the run well as the No. 3 outside linebacker, but in five seasons he hasn’t shown the pass-rush skills that got him 20 sacks in his college career.

General Manager Ted Thompson surely will look hard for another backup once teams start cutting players in August, and it’s a good bet a couple of new players will roll through camp. If no one holds up, the fourth outside linebacker will come from a group of players who entered the league undrafted: Robert Francois and Cyril Obiozor, who were rookie free agents last year, and Frank Zombo and John Russell, who went undrafted this year.

Francois, who spent the final four weeks on the Packers’ practice squad last year, was working high in the rotation after dropping weight from the 260-pound range in 2009 to about 250 pounds this year. Zombo is more athletic than Russell, who is making a challenging transition from college defensive tackle to 3-4 outside linebacker.

The Packers dabbled in minicamp with defensive end Jenkins playing some outside linebacker, and also had Brandon Chillar take a few snaps there as well, but those probably are change-of-pace options at best.

Desmond Bishop, a perennial preseason game standout, faces a tough time getting on the field at inside linebacker, though he could make a run at A.J. Hawk if he becomes consistently assignment-sound.

Quarterbacks

Backup Matt Flynn has some limitations in arm talent but is mobile and keeps improving at running the offense. He looks like a viable option at least to finish a game.

Graham Harrell, recently signed this offseason, has a decent shot to stick as the practice-squad quarterback. He didn’t go to an NFL training camp and ended up as a deep backup in the Canadian Football League as a rookie last year after Cleveland cut him after a post-draft minicamp tryout. He has average arm strength at best but also looks polished, poised and smart.

Offensive line

It looks like Chad Clifton and Mark Tauscher will be starting at left and right tackle, respectively, perhaps for the last time. Each has an heir apparent behind him — first-round pick Bryan Bulaga on the left side and T.J. Lang on the right — but both veterans looked healthy and sound in offseason practices.

Bulaga appears as technically proficient as his Iowa pedigree suggests, but he’ll do well to forge as good a career as Clifton has, at least as a pass blocker. Lang, a second-year pro, missed offseason practices because of wrist surgery and will have to come back at an unexpectedly high level to unseat Tauscher in camp.

At the end of minicamp, coach Mike McCarthy said Lang will play right tackle and guard when camp opens, which means he won’t be in the running for the starting job at left guard, at least at the beginning. Daryn Colledge is the front-runner there, considering Jason Spitz didn’t practice all offseason and is coming back from a serious lower-back injury.

Breno Giacomini looks like he’s improved his odds of making the final roster for a third season, considering the extensive work he got at right tackle with Lang out. Most teams will make room for an extra lineman, so Allen Barbre can make the roster though he’ll need a strong camp to do it.

Fifth-round pick Marshall Newhouse has a ways to go at guard, though he appeared more comfortable at tackle. Backup center Evan Dietrich-Smith, who made the team as an undrafted rookie last year, will be tough to knock off the roster.

Running backs

Ryan Grant is the unquestioned starter and again is headed for most of the carries.

Sixth-round pick James Starks, like Grant, is a tall back, and in nonpadded practices looked a little more athletic and agile than Grant. But most running backs are especially difficult to judge until the games, when they show whether they can break tackles and take hits.

Fourth-year pro Brandon Jackson has value because he’s become a sound pass blocker and also catches well.

Fullback Quinn Johnson is a masher, so there’s no knowing the strides he’s made fundamentally as a blocker from his rookie season until the pads go on. He showed signs late last season of being a punishing blocker at about 265 pounds, though he also has to show up as a cover man on special teams.

It’s hard to see the Packers keeping three fullbacks again, so if Johnson performs, then either John Kuhn or Korey Hall probably won’t be back for a fourth season.

Receivers

The top four will be the same for the third straight season with Greg Jennings and Donald Driver starting, and backups James Jones and Jordy Nelson sharing the No. 3 job.

Not much separates Jones and Nelson. Jones has settled into a playing weight of a little under 210 pounds after feeling too bulked up at closer to 220 two years ago. Nelson for the second straight offseason showed some chemistry with quarterback Aaron Rodgers when plays broke down, though last year it didn’t carry over much to the regular season.

Brett Swain appears to have made as impressive a recovery as Blackmon from knee surgery, which makes him a good bet to win the No. 5 job again, assuming he can perform close to the level he did in camp last year as a receiver and special-teams player.

The receivers with the best chance to challenge Swain or make the practice squad are Patrick Williams, who was on the 53-man roster the last three games last season, and Chastin West, an undrafted rookie who has good size (6-1, 212) and hands.

Tight ends

Judging from offseason practices, Jermichael Finley could be ready to take off as a playmaker after his strong finish as a receiver last year.

Rookie Andrew Quarless flashes good receiving talent and speed but probably is too raw to make much of a contribution this year ahead of steady-as-she-goes veteran Donald Lee. Spencer Havner’s promising move to tight end last year took a mind-boggling hit when he had to sit out all offseason after breaking his shoulder blade while messing around on a motorcycle.

Special teams

The punt-off between Tim Masthay and Chris Bryan looks as close as the coaching staff says. Masthay appears to have the slightly stronger leg, and the 28-year-old Bryan appears a little more polished, especially with his variety of unusual techniques on pooch punts after his career in Australian Rules Football.

[wootah]

Rogers on the other hand was lauded as a natural punt returner when we drafted him, and then he couldn't catch the damn ball.

If I recall correctly, he could catch the ball, but the coaches were not happy with the way he did it so they tried to change his technique, with disastrous results.

[Joemailman]

Rogers had developed a tendency to catch the ball with his hands out to his side. The Packers wanted him to catch the ball with with his hands directly in front of him. The reason is if the player muffs a punt with his hands directly in front, there is a good chance the ball will bounce directly in front of him, and he can either pick it up or fall on it. If he muffs a punt with his hands out to his side, the ball may bounce away from him in the direction of the gunner.

He couldn't make the change. I was at practice one day where they had him taking extra practice catching punts. He must have muffed half of them.

[Fritz]

The article above mentions Harrell (Justin) as having only an outside shot to make the team due to concerns about durability.

This made me wonder if it would be a blessing for the Packers to have Johnny Jolly suspended by the league for the first four games of the season (if he's found not guilty in court). If he were suspended for conduct detrimental to the league or whatever it is, that would give Harrell the first four games to see if he can hold up.

On top of that, Jolly would be fresher toward the end of the season if he missed the first four.

All this assumes no injuries, I know, but....

What do people think? Would it benefit the Pack to have Jolly suspended for the first four games?

[Joemailman]

The article above mentions Harrell (Justin) as having only an outside shot to make the team due to concerns about durability.

This made me wonder if it would be a blessing for the Packers to have Johnny Jolly suspended by the league for the first four games of the season (if he's found not guilty in court). If he were suspended for conduct detrimental to the league or whatever it is, that would give Harrell the first four games to see if he can hold up.

On top of that, Jolly would be fresher toward the end of the season if he missed the first four.

All this assumes no injuries, I know, but....

What do people think? Would it benefit the Pack to have Jolly suspended for the first four games?

Well, first of all I think a suspension might help Jolly realize that he needs to make some lifestyle changes.

However, I agree with your larger point. I've been thinking that if the Packers decide to keep Harrell, they might need to keep 7 DL instead of 6 because of the uncertainty of his availability. Keeping 6+Jolly might be better.

Raji, Pickett, Jenkins and Neal are locks for the 53 man roster. If the Packers keep Harrell, they are going to have to face releasing either Jarius Wynn or C.J.Wilson (or both) at some point. The longer they have to make that decision the better.

[Fritz]

I'm a little surprised at the hype about Wilson. Wasn't he a seventh round pick? Is this the kool aid affecting us all, thinking he's going to be good enough to unseat Harrell?

[Joemailman]

Actually, Wilson was projected to be a 4th round pick. Not sure why he dropped as far as he did. Probably because 4-3 teams didn't think he had enough pass rush ability. His pass rush ability is probably good enough for a 3-4 though.

http://draftace.com/profiles/2010/cj_wilson.htm

[hoosier]

Sam Shields sounds like Cory Rogers without the gun.

Well, it's a little bit different. Shields came in without much (any?) punt return experience in college, he was primarily a gunner and we could probably use him for that too. Rogers on the other hand was lauded as a natural punt returner when we drafted him, and then he couldn't catch the damn ball.

I could see Shields making this team purely on the basis of his ability as a special teams gunner and his long term potential as a punt returner. Rogers had no shot to make the team if he couldn't catch the damn punt.

By my count that would give GB eight position players on the roster whose real speciality is special teams (Shields, Kuhn, Hall, Havner, Blackmon, Bush, Swain, Martin). I wonder if they could still manage to rank last in ST with that many "specialists."

[Guiness]

By my count that would give GB eight position players on the roster whose real speciality is special teams (Shields, Kuhn, Hall, Havner, Blackmon, Bush, Swain, Martin). I wonder if they could still manage to rank last in ST with that many "specialists."

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