Jolly Suspended Indefinitely

[mraynrand]

This seems like an extreme punishment for what will likely be a very minor incident. Live and let live, that's my motto.

[gbgary]

anyone out there unsigned to take his place?

[Joemailman]

Ol' Cleedeeus is available.

[Lurker64]

anyone out there unsigned to take his place?

No, and I doubt there would be anybody out there who would have a better chance of making the roster than guys like Ronald Talley, C.J. Wilson, or Jarius Wynn. Remember, that we'll keep 6 DL on the 53 and suit 5 on game days.

Remember, Jolly was demoted from a starting position early in the offseason when Pickett was moved to DE, and so we're really just losing a backup. We already drafted the guy who was intended to replace Jolly in April, and there were no free agents worth pursuing at this position with our depth at the spot. Thompson saw the possibility of this coming and already prepared for it. We may bat down fewer passes at the line, but we should be fine.

[pbmax]

I believe the policy states that the first suspension is a minimum of 4 games, the second a minimum of 8, the third a minimum of 12 months. Nothing says the first can't be more, depending on circumstances.

I find the timing of this rather peculiar. It has been dragging on forever, and now two weeks before the trial is to start, the NFL comes down with their suspension. Why not earlier? Why not wait until after the trial when they waited this long?

Where is the avatar?

I may be getting old, but I do not remember a second suspension clocking in under a year. But to be honest, I may have missed the details on the individual appeals, etc. So my memory may only be of the original announcements. I do not remember reading that 8 games was the minimum second suspension. That is news to me.

[wist43]

I understand you guys soft pedal bad news, and set off fireworks at the signing of minimum wage FA's... but, Jolly was arguably our best DL last year, and he will be missed.

And don't even try to make the argument that we'll be fine at DE b/c Pickett is moving there... Pickett is a career long NT for a reason - he's a NT!!!!

The drafting of Neal and Wilson will hopefully ease the blow a bit, but none of you can argue that we'll be better at DE with the loss of Jolly. They'll plug a body in there, but this hurts the Packers front seven - no doubt about it.

[Lurker64]

And don't even try to make the argument that we'll be fine at DE b/c Pickett is moving there... Pickett is a career long NT for a reason - he's a NT!!!!

Actually, Pickett's not a career long NT. He's played in the B gap more than he's played in the A gap, and last year was his first year at NT. Now we're asking him to play in the C-gap, but playing the 5-technique really isn't all that different from playing the 3-technique. If anything, fast slippery penetrators are a lot better 3-techs than 5-techs, and Pickett is anything but. You might like a little more length out of him from the 5-tech, but he should be fine. Attitude, assignment sureness, and hard-working is more important for 3-4 defensive ends who are physically suited to that position than anything else. If a guy's not long enough (Raji) or not strong enough (Wynn), he will likely struggle at the 5-tech no matter what, but if a guy is long enough, strong enough, smart enough, knows the plays, and willing to work hard he should be fine.

The thing that could really save the Packers here is if, by some miracle, Justin Harrell can play this year. He'd be a monster at 5-tech, if he can return to his pre-back injury form. I wouldn't bet any money on that though, regardless of the odds you gave me.

[CaliforniaCheez]

There is a lot we do not know yet.

Probably much will come out at trial.

For the NFL to come out with the big hammer on a first offense it has to be really bad.

Probably should start assuming he will never put on a Packer Jersey again.

I never thought it was this bad.

[Fritz]

I really do not understand the anger toward Johnny Jolly. We've had many threads about NFL players' lack of preparedness for their post-NFL careers. We read stories about formerly rich players who end up broke because they didn't prepare for life after football. According to the prosecution for his case, Johnny Jolly is heavy into the drug business, dealing.

So here we have a player who is trying to diversify, who is investing his football earnings into another very lucrative business, and he runs into a little bad luck and now we're hating on him? Nobody seemed to hate on Mark Brunell when his investments went south. Johnny was looking ahead, like any good businessman. Sure, he took some pretty big risks, but look at the potential payoff. It just didn't work out. Like all those hotshots who invested in real estate six years ago and now are sitting there broke.

Johnny Jolly is a forward-thinking individual who is unconcerned with the rules, sure he can work around them are be treated with kid gloves. He's no different than the CEO of a large corporation, maybe just with less clout. But he's pulled himself up by his bootstraps. He's no Donald Trump, who was handed his fortune.

If anything the NFL should hire Jolly to tutor young NFL players on thinking ahead and developing other talents so that when their careers are over they can continue to live in the style to which they will soon be accustomed.

As for his personal drug use, well, he's only using the product he's selling. Would you want the CEO of GM to drive a Toyota, or to take a bus to work? Of course not. Would you want Steve Jobs to not use an Apple? Of course not.

Johnny Jolly is a sadly misunderstood businessman.

[Scott Campbell]

There is a lot we do not know yet.

Probably much will come out at trial.

For the NFL to come out with the big hammer on a first offense it has to be really bad.

Probably should start assuming he will never put on a Packer Jersey again.

I never thought it was this bad.

Remember all the grief Ted got for drafting Neal in the 2nd? They knew.

[sharpe1027]

I understand you guys soft pedal bad news, and set off fireworks at the signing of minimum wage FA's... but, Jolly was arguably our best DL last year, and he will be missed.

And don't even try to make the argument that we'll be fine at DE b/c Pickett is moving there... Pickett is a career long NT for a reason - he's a NT!!!!

The drafting of Neal and Wilson will hopefully ease the blow a bit, but none of you can argue that we'll be better at DE with the loss of Jolly. They'll plug a body in there, but this hurts the Packers front seven - no doubt about it.

Not better, by any means, but not necessarily the end of the world. JJ was a stout option that would eat up blockers and get in passing lanes, no more, no less. That's a great thing to have and fits the 3-4 pretty well, but is should not be impossible to replace (compared to a pass-rushing 4-3 end). The big test will be if one or two guys go down with an injury for any length of time.

[BallHawk]

I really do not understand the anger toward Johnny Jolly. We've had many threads about NFL players' lack of preparedness for their post-NFL careers. We read stories about formerly rich players who end up broke because they didn't prepare for life after football. According to the prosecution for his case, Johnny Jolly is heavy into the drug business, dealing.

So here we have a player who is trying to diversify, who is investing his football earnings into another very lucrative business, and he runs into a little bad luck and now we're hating on him? Nobody seemed to hate on Mark Brunell when his investments went south. Johnny was looking ahead, like any good businessman. Sure, he took some pretty big risks, but look at the potential payoff. It just didn't work out. Like all those hotshots who invested in real estate six years ago and now are sitting there broke.

Johnny Jolly is a forward-thinking individual who is unconcerned with the rules, sure he can work around them are be treated with kid gloves. He's no different than the CEO of a large corporation, maybe just with less clout. But he's pulled himself up by his bootstraps. He's no Donald Trump, who was handed his fortune.

If anything the NFL should hire Jolly to tutor young NFL players on thinking ahead and developing other talents so that when their careers are over they can continue to live in the style to which they will soon be accustomed.

As for his personal drug use, well, he's only using the product he's selling. Would you want the CEO of GM to drive a Toyota, or to take a bus to work? Of course not. Would you want Steve Jobs to not use an Apple? Of course not.

Johnny Jolly is a sadly misunderstood businessman.

+1

[wist43]

And don't even try to make the argument that we'll be fine at DE b/c Pickett is moving there... Pickett is a career long NT for a reason - he's a NT!!!!

Actually, Pickett's not a career long NT. He's played in the B gap more than he's played in the A gap, and last year was his first year at NT. Now we're asking him to play in the C-gap, but playing the 5-technique really isn't all that different from playing the 3-technique. If anything, fast slippery penetrators are a lot better 3-techs than 5-techs, and Pickett is anything but. You might like a little more length out of him from the 5-tech, but he should be fine. Attitude, assignment sureness, and hard-working is more important for 3-4 defensive ends who are physically suited to that position than anything else. If a guy's not long enough (Raji) or not strong enough (Wynn), he will likely struggle at the 5-tech no matter what, but if a guy is long enough, strong enough, smart enough, knows the plays, and willing to work hard he should be fine.

The thing that could really save the Packers here is if, by some miracle, Justin Harrell can play this year. He'd be a monster at 5-tech, if he can return to his pre-back injury form. I wouldn't bet any money on that though, regardless of the odds you gave me.

Nah, not buyin it Lurker You guys told me for how long?? that Kampman was destined for the HOF as a LB... didn't see that then, don't see this now.

In a 4-3, go ahead, move Pickett anywhere you want inside, but even Sherman Klump wouldn't consider him at DE. As for the 3-4, yes the skills needed to play DE in a 3-4 are quite similar to the skills needed to play inside - we've discussed this at length; however, Jolly and Pickett are 2 completely different types of players.

Jolly excelled outside b/c of his athleticism; Pickett on the other hand is just a fat guy - he's shaped like a pear, he has no burst, and he can't run at all. He's great at eating up blockers inside - plop him down in the middle of the line, and let him slug it out with the C and G's for 16 games.

Raji on the other hand, may not have the requisite length to be pencilled in at DE (just as Pickett doesn't)... but, Raji does have great burst and strength to go with his bulk; and he damn sure can offer inside pass rush on passing downs - something Pickett cannot.

Now why would you take 2 players - and play them at positions where their strengths are negated??? Pickett is not a DE in any scheme, just as Kampman was never a LB; Raji can play anywhere in a 3-4, and inside in a 4-3, but his greatest strength is his ability to be disruptive on the interior pass rush with his quickness, size, and strength.

In the end, my greatest objection to the DL musical chairs is moving Raji to NT... to me, his #1 job should be inside pass rush, collapse the pocket - go ahead and rotate him at DE, but I want a fresh and explosive Raji coming off the snap, and I want the QB to be aware that he's there, and that he's coming. I believe a healthy Raji can be a very disruptive force on the interior pass rush, and I don't want anything to take away from that.

Playing the nose in the base can only serve to wear him down and negate his greatest strength. I don't think I'm going out on a limb when I say that any players movement skills and pass rush will diminish considerably over the course of a seasons worth of NT abuse.

Justin Harrell??? don't think he can play anywhere, in any scheme

[RashanGary]

We need either Neal, Wilson, Harrell, Wynn or a combination of those 4 to have a good year if we hope to have a good defense.

If Neal doesn't click right away, if Wilson doesn't look very good, if Wynn is no better than last year, if Harrell is what he is. . . .

Those things all could happen and if they do, our DL rotation is very mediocre. I'm hoping for the best, but now we have a question mark that I really didn't want to have going into the season. My enthusiasm is dampered after this news.

[retailguy]

We need either Neal, Wilson, Harrell, Wynn or a combination of those 4 to have a good year if we hope to have a good defense.

If Neal doesn't click right away, if Wilson doesn't look very good, if Wynn is no better than last year, if Harrell is what he is. . . .

Those things all could happen and if they do, our DL rotation is very mediocre. I'm hoping for the best, but now we have a question mark that I really didn't want to have going into the season. My enthusiasm is dampered after this news.

Expecting Wilson to step up this year is really unrealistic. He's a 7th round prospect that might contribute in a limited fashion, but all season? Not realistic.

Really, the expectations should be on Wynn primarily and Neal secondarily. Anything we get out of Harrell is a damn gift.

Yep, it's a hole. But realistically Jolly wasn't going to be available in the early part of the season anyhow, so they've had the time to plan to overcome it. The plan is Neal. It better work, that's what Ted is paid for.

No excuses this season. It's time to win. Just win baby. Just win.