Sam Shields At Nickel

[Joemailman]

http://www.espnmilwaukee.com/includes/news_items/40/news_items_more.php?id=4226&section_id=40

Looks like Sam Shields will get a shot at Nickel with the #1 defense Thursday Night. It will be interesting to see what he can do against top competition. Obviously Underwood's performance last week did not sit well with the coaching staff.

[pbmax]

Wow. Apparently, Lee's audition yesterday did not go well.

[RashanGary]

My theory with these guys is this,

Some people have a hard time with concepts. You can teach them rules and steps, but football is almost impossible to teach in rules and steps. The techniques, sure, but the subtle adjustments that need to be made very play. It would take a long, long, long time to memorize every single one of those.


Other people are good with concepts. They're always trying to consider the situation and adjust to that (not just in football, but in everything). It happens to apply well to football.


When it's 4th and 3 and you're playing cover 2, a person who understands concept and context is going to realize that the first goal of this down is to not give up the TD. The second goal is to not give up the first down. So they're lining up in cover 2, off coverage, with help over the top. Right away, the corner can stop worrying about the TD. He has deep help. Now it's about stopping the first down. How to do that? Play the short routes extremely aggressively, even if it means getting beat on a double move. Again, it's context. On first and 10, you might play it a little differently, but this down, you sell out to stop the easiest 3 yard completions and make them beat you with a higher difficulty pass.

Underwood seems to have no awareness of concept or context. With that, he's always just doing the wrong thing.

I compare it to Robert Ferguson. He was a physical specimen and a hard worker. The coaches loved him, never wanted to take him out. But he ran routes exactly the same every time. He seemed to have no awareness of concept or context. When a ball was not right on the money, it's like he couldn't adjust. Todays receivers, Nelson for an example last week, ran hsi route. He was running into a safety, sensed that if the ball was thrown, it would be better behind where he'd avoid coverage and was able to adjust better because he knows what to expect under that context. . . . Just an on the fly reaction, but really, it's all set up by an awareness. . .

Basically, I think Underwood is garbage. There is no excuse for him to suck this bad, he just sucks. I think Lee is the same. I've been hoping and am still hoping for a CB in trade. Any type of a guy who can just line up and play mixed coverages. Nothing special, just a nickle/dime guy who's not lost.

[vince]

Hopefully, Shields makes some plays tonight and doesn't get victimized as Manning is wont to doing to guys like him. This could be the most important night of his life so far.

[rbaloha1]

Disappointed with nickel play sofar. SS has poor hands and sometimes lacks ball awareness.

But the recovery speed is great. Underwood and Lee always appear confused. Maybe SS is more assignment sure and solidifies the position.

[Fritz]

[quote="vince"]Hopefully, Shields makes some plays tonight and doesn't get victimized as Manning is wont to doing to guys like him. This could be the most important night of his life so far.[/quote]

I dunno. I think it was the night his girlfriend stopped him and urged him to use a condom.

I think that was a big night for him.

[Pugger]

Wow. Apparently, Lee's audition yesterday did not go well.

Or maybe the coaches want to see how Shields will do in the nickel and dime this go-around?

[Deputy Nutz]

I think that it stems from the fact that outside of Harris and Woodson the Packers have inexperienced corners. This is a position that takes instincts, understanding of the scheme, talent, and coachability. I am not saying that Underwood or Pat Lee are bad guys or lack talent, but I don't think they have a lick of experience, neither one of them were consistent, top performers in college, they were drafted based on size and/or potential. Same with Sam Shields who was picked up as a free agent.

unfortunately instincts and coachability are very similar to talent, you either have them or you don't and in regards to Underwood, Lee, and Bush they most likely don't.

This is a reason why teams are willing to spend high draft pick after draft pick on corners, and then when they have a good one, make them the highest paid defensive player on the field. To play corner well in the NFL you have to be a 5 tool player, or like Al Harris have certain tools that make up for say, lack of speed, or size.

Woodson is a remarkable 5 tool talent, simply one of the best to ever play the game. He isn't the shut down corner that Deon Sanders was, but Woodson is a better tackler, has much better instincts, and is a turn over machine. If I had to rank corners in the last 20 years, I believe that Woodson would be in the top 3 if not the number one corner on that list. It is just too bad that he had to waste the first half of his career in Oakland.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think that it stems from the fact that outside of Harris and Woodson the Packers have inexperienced corners.

I wouldn't classify Tramon as inexperienced anymore.

Kind of funny, but I think the Vikings are kind of in a similar situation as us.

They have Winfield. We have Woodson. Very good or great #1 corners.
They have Griffin. We have Harris. Good #2 corners that are coming off an injury.
They have Sheppard. We have Williams. Experienced #3 corners--although I think Sheppard is on the downside and not in Williams league.
They have Cook. We have Lee. Inexperienced #4 corners that they spent a second round pick on.
They have Allen. We have Underwood. Late round pick in their second year.

I like ours a bit better, but both teams need their young guys to step up. Hopefully, Shields gives us a third option at nickel--until Harris comes back.

[pbmax]

Wow. Apparently, Lee's audition yesterday did not go well.

Or maybe the coaches want to see how Shields will do in the nickel and dime this go-around?

The joke was that they hadn't even waited to see how Lee had done. I think Harv is right, Lee likely gets first reps at nickel for this exhibition game.

[RashanGary]

I like Asher Allen and I think Cook has a far better chance than any of our young guys. We're better with Woodson. After that, we're about equal with Tramon and let's say 85% Harris. After that, they have us by a long shot IMO. Well, we have Shields, who is a complete wild card, but I think Lee and Underwood are just plain bad. CAnt' say that for Allen and I doubt that's the case with Cook.

[Brandon494]

We also have a big advantage at safety over the Vikings.

[packerbacker1234]

I really am pulling for shields to show any sign he is a competent corner. He has been the class of the 2nd defensive team, almost making his own island out there.

Now he gets a shot, an important shot, to prove he can handle the people who will be on the field every sunday. If harris's recovery is well and he is as good as he was pre injury, this little experiment is more than likely to be for the #4, quarter and dime position, but in either case harris isn't likely to stay around too much longer, and who knows how long woodson plays. If shields shows something tonight, he has real shot to be at least a great nickle corner for us in 2 or 3 years.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I like Asher Allen and I think Cook has a far better chance than any of our young guys. We're better with Woodson. After that, we're about equal with Tramon and let's say 85% Harris. After that, they have us by a long shot IMO. Well, we have Shields, who is a complete wild card, but I think Lee and Underwood are just plain bad. CAnt' say that for Allen and I doubt that's the case with Cook.

We'll see. Right now, Cook is getting the fluff pieces, but we'll see when the bullets fly. Hell, Sam Shields could end up being better than Cook. Probably not, but there have been undrafted free agents that have turned out better than second round picks (see Tramon Williams v Marcus McCauley). Hell, Shields will probably be better than our second round pick. Until any of these guys prove themselves, we just don't know.

I'd put Asher Allen in the same boat as Underwood and Lee. I'm sure one or two of these five guys will turn into players, but we don't know which ones yet.

[Fritz]

Watching the game yesterday there seemed to be several occasions during which Shields played under a receiver, jumped way up to try to bat a pass away, barely missed it, and the receiver then caught the ball and was tackled by a safety.

I was impressed with Shields's jumping ability. But he didn't get to the ball, either.

I didn't think Lee played great but he didn't play badly, either.

Underwood seems lost to me.

Hell, Tramon Williams seemed lost, too.