Jason Spitz or G/C Evan Dietrich-Smith... Getting calls?

[bobblehead]

2. The change of O lineman success rates from Colledge, Spitz, Barbre and Giacomini to the new crop of Sitton, EDS, Lang, Meredith, Bulaga and Newhouse make me think the Packers were identifying the wrong players for the coaches and systems. The lighter, more athletic types (former TEs) have suddenly disappeared from the drafts. I think the team had its personnel target trained on the wrong kind of player. Perhaps because of the coach or perhaps because of the O philosophy.

Only McCarthy was in a position before to know how to tell a GM what kind of lineman he needed to run his offense. And his best resource on the topic left for BC after one year. Neither Philbin and Campen had never had that responsibility before.

I think there has been a very clear change it what they are looking for. The more recent picks seem to have about 15-20 lbs on the picks the first couple years under MM.

Agree. I mentioned that in some offseason thread that starting with Sitton we seemed to be drafting more of the bigger powerhouse OL and less of the athletic slightly smaller ones. With that, we should see the old guard get replaced so to speak.

[Patler]

I don't think there's any doubt that Sitton has improved.

I don't know, he was pretty impressive as a rookie, and would probably have started but was injured late in camp (sort of like Bulaga this year). I think it remains to be seen if he makes the next step.

[red]

2. The change of O lineman success rates from Colledge, Spitz, Barbre and Giacomini to the new crop of Sitton, EDS, Lang, Meredith, Bulaga and Newhouse make me think the Packers were identifying the wrong players for the coaches and systems. The lighter, more athletic types (former TEs) have suddenly disappeared from the drafts. I think the team had its personnel target trained on the wrong kind of player. Perhaps because of the coach or perhaps because of the O philosophy.

Only McCarthy was in a position before to know how to tell a GM what kind of lineman he needed to run his offense. And his best resource on the topic left for BC after one year. Neither Philbin and Campen had never had that responsibility before.

I think there has been a very clear change it what they are looking for. The more recent picks seem to have about 15-20 lbs on the picks the first couple years under MM.

Agree. I mentioned that in some offseason thread that starting with Sitton we seemed to be drafting more of the bigger powerhouse OL and less of the athletic slightly smaller ones. With that, we should see the old guard get replaced so to speak.

i think this all became crystal clear to everyone a couple years ago when we played dallas and our little o-line got pushed all over the field. meanwhile the cowboy o-line with a lot of fat in the ass looked like a concrete wall

at least thats when i knew the smaller athletic zone blocking guys just weren't gonna cut it

[mraynrand]

2. The change of O lineman success rates from Colledge, Spitz, Barbre and Giacomini to the new crop of Sitton, EDS, Lang, Meredith, Bulaga and Newhouse make me think the Packers were identifying the wrong players for the coaches and systems. The lighter, more athletic types (former TEs) have suddenly disappeared from the drafts. I think the team had its personnel target trained on the wrong kind of player. Perhaps because of the coach or perhaps because of the O philosophy.

Only McCarthy was in a position before to know how to tell a GM what kind of lineman he needed to run his offense. And his best resource on the topic left for BC after one year. Neither Philbin and Campen had never had that responsibility before.

I think there has been a very clear change it what they are looking for. The more recent picks seem to have about 15-20 lbs on the picks the first couple years under MM.

Agree. I mentioned that in some offseason thread that starting with Sitton we seemed to be drafting more of the bigger powerhouse OL and less of the athletic slightly smaller ones. With that, we should see the old guard get replaced so to speak.

i think this all became crystal clear to everyone a couple years ago when we played dallas and our little o-line got pushed all over the field. meanwhile the cowboy o-line with a lot of fat in the ass looked like a concrete wall

at least thats when i knew the smaller athletic zone blocking guys just weren't gonna cut it

McGinn is gearing up to ask McCarthy about how often they are going to run ZBS plays versus power, etc. in his eve-of-the-season season interview. I can already see McCarthy rolling his eyes.

[pbmax]

2. The change of O lineman success rates from Colledge, Spitz, Barbre and Giacomini to the new crop of Sitton, EDS, Lang, Meredith, Bulaga and Newhouse make me think the Packers were identifying the wrong players for the coaches and systems. The lighter, more athletic types (former TEs) have suddenly disappeared from the drafts. I think the team had its personnel target trained on the wrong kind of player. Perhaps because of the coach or perhaps because of the O philosophy.

Only McCarthy was in a position before to know how to tell a GM what kind of lineman he needed to run his offense. And his best resource on the topic left for BC after one year. Neither Philbin and Campen had never had that responsibility before.

I think there has been a very clear change it what they are looking for. The more recent picks seem to have about 15-20 lbs on the picks the first couple years under MM.

Agree. I mentioned that in some offseason thread that starting with Sitton we seemed to be drafting more of the bigger powerhouse OL and less of the athletic slightly smaller ones. With that, we should see the old guard get replaced so to speak.

Waldo did have a convincing post that the body types and measurables weren't all that different between Colledge/Barbre and Sitton/Meredith. What definitely is different is the style of play and background. No former TEs and more interior lineman, as opposed to all college tackles.

[mraynrand]

2. The change of O lineman success rates from Colledge, Spitz, Barbre and Giacomini to the new crop of Sitton, EDS, Lang, Meredith, Bulaga and Newhouse make me think the Packers were identifying the wrong players for the coaches and systems. The lighter, more athletic types (former TEs) have suddenly disappeared from the drafts. I think the team had its personnel target trained on the wrong kind of player. Perhaps because of the coach or perhaps because of the O philosophy.

Only McCarthy was in a position before to know how to tell a GM what kind of lineman he needed to run his offense. And his best resource on the topic left for BC after one year. Neither Philbin and Campen had never had that responsibility before.

I think there has been a very clear change it what they are looking for. The more recent picks seem to have about 15-20 lbs on the picks the first couple years under MM.

Agree. I mentioned that in some offseason thread that starting with Sitton we seemed to be drafting more of the bigger powerhouse OL and less of the athletic slightly smaller ones. With that, we should see the old guard get replaced so to speak.

Waldo did have a convincing post that the body types and measurables weren't all that different between Colledge/Barbre and Sitton/Meredith. What definitely is different is the style of play and background. No former TEs and more interior lineman, as opposed to all college tackles.

McDonald seems to have both - College tackle who is big enough and strong enough to play inside, quick enough to pull, and maybe good enough to sub at tackle, if needed. I thought he blocked well inside against KC.

[hoosier]

2. The change of O lineman success rates from Colledge, Spitz, Barbre and Giacomini to the new crop of Sitton, EDS, Lang, Meredith, Bulaga and Newhouse make me think the Packers were identifying the wrong players for the coaches and systems. The lighter, more athletic types (former TEs) have suddenly disappeared from the drafts. I think the team had its personnel target trained on the wrong kind of player. Perhaps because of the coach or perhaps because of the O philosophy.

Only McCarthy was in a position before to know how to tell a GM what kind of lineman he needed to run his offense. And his best resource on the topic left for BC after one year. Neither Philbin and Campen had never had that responsibility before.

I think there has been a very clear change it what they are looking for. The more recent picks seem to have about 15-20 lbs on the picks the first couple years under MM.

Agree. I mentioned that in some offseason thread that starting with Sitton we seemed to be drafting more of the bigger powerhouse OL and less of the athletic slightly smaller ones. With that, we should see the old guard get replaced so to speak.

i think this all became crystal clear to everyone a couple years ago when we played dallas and our little o-line got pushed all over the field. meanwhile the cowboy o-line with a lot of fat in the ass looked like a concrete wall

at least thats when i knew the smaller athletic zone blocking guys just weren't gonna cut it

The Packers didn't get pushed all over the field because they were smaller, they got dominated because they weren't as good. Remember when the 1998 SB when the Packers defensive line (then the biggest in the league by far) got manhandled by the much smaller zone-blocking Denver OL?

[mraynrand]

2. The change of O lineman success rates from Colledge, Spitz, Barbre and Giacomini to the new crop of Sitton, EDS, Lang, Meredith, Bulaga and Newhouse make me think the Packers were identifying the wrong players for the coaches and systems. The lighter, more athletic types (former TEs) have suddenly disappeared from the drafts. I think the team had its personnel target trained on the wrong kind of player. Perhaps because of the coach or perhaps because of the O philosophy.

Only McCarthy was in a position before to know how to tell a GM what kind of lineman he needed to run his offense. And his best resource on the topic left for BC after one year. Neither Philbin and Campen had never had that responsibility before.

I think there has been a very clear change it what they are looking for. The more recent picks seem to have about 15-20 lbs on the picks the first couple years under MM.

Agree. I mentioned that in some offseason thread that starting with Sitton we seemed to be drafting more of the bigger powerhouse OL and less of the athletic slightly smaller ones. With that, we should see the old guard get replaced so to speak.

i think this all became crystal clear to everyone a couple years ago when we played dallas and our little o-line got pushed all over the field. meanwhile the cowboy o-line with a lot of fat in the ass looked like a concrete wall

at least thats when i knew the smaller athletic zone blocking guys just weren't gonna cut it

The Packers didn't get pushed all over the field because they were smaller, they got dominated because they weren't as good. Remember when the 1998 SB when the Packers defensive line (then the biggest in the league by far) got manhandled by the much smaller zone-blocking Denver OL?

Let's see: Reggie White: End of career; Gilbert Brown: Twice injured by TB and Indy, missed a lot of PT; Dotson: Meh; Gabe Wilkins, left game with injury leaving packers with Darius Holland, a DT at DE (Meh). Denver ran a good scheme as their offensive stats showed from that year, and punished a beat up, old tired DL in SB XXXII.

But I agree, In the current era, the ZBS 'guru' (err, tool), Jeff Jagodzinski feld the packers, leaving them with no one to teach it. Yes, the Packers OL wasn't good against the Dallas D in 2008, but the McCarthy Packers never ran the ZBS all that well (somewhat OK in 2007) - combination of poor players and even poorer coaching?