Donald Driver...Special?

[Smidgeon]

Drive is possibly the best YAC WR to ever play the game. Read that again "possibly the best at something involving wr's to ever play the game". That alone is HOF worthy.

...

If we just compare it straight up to those in the hall...

He will:

2. Have one key statistic he holds over most the rest - YAC.

Prove it. Show me something to back that up. Otherwise your entire reason for wanting Driver in the HOF is nothing but speculative drivel, and it is probably inaccurate. He's good at YAC, but best ever? C'mon.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Sterling Sharpe was better after the catch. Jerry Rice also.

[Smidgeon]

Sterling Sharpe was better after the catch. Jerry Rice also.

I wouldn't be surprised if Lofton was too, I didn't see him play, so I can only speculate based on the enormous yardage he got year after year.

[Waldo]

Packers HOF? Yes. Pro football HOF? Absolutely not.

There are a number of "tests" that each player must pass in order to make it (Peter King (a HOF voter) has talked at length about this).

The longevity test - HOF players played at a high level for a long time. Few players that retire before their mid 30's have a chance. Playing well beyind when their peers do is a sign of greateness. Driver passes this test.

The best test - To make the Hall a player must have been considered the best at their position for a period of their career. Since the Hall voters are also part of the MVP, DPOY, OPOY, and All-Pro voters, they look to these accolades first when making best assessments. Hall players typically earned multiple first team All-Pro accolades during their career, and earning MVP, DPOY, and/or OPOY honors at least once significantly improves their chances. Driver fails this test, having never earned a league-wide accolade above making the pro-bowl in his career.

The stats test - A player must have career statisics that places them high in the record books at the end of their career. Don is #40 on the career reception list, with about 650 (several active players ahead of him). He'll need to get to about 1,000 before he retires before that # becomes hall worthy. He's #42 on the career yards at about 9100. He'll need to get into the 13,000 area for that # to be hall worthy (lots of active players ahead of him). He's #92 on the career TD list with 51. He's very low in that stat. He'll need to hit at least 90 for his career to be hall worthy. There are a lot of active WR's with more career TD's than Don. Don fails the stats test.

The single season stats test - This goes back to and relates to the best test, but record setting seasons, and season's leading the league in a key stat significantly improve a players chances. This is hand in hand with the best test, almost always a player will earn the accolades that go with being considered the best if they put up the stats in a single season that prove they are the best. Driver fails this test.

The winner test - Hall voters clearly prefer players that won Superbowls. They seem to be very concious of how many players per superbowl team they have in the hall, and make efforts to correct deficiencies, or hold guys back so they don't have too many. For players that weren't on Superbowl teams, everything else has to shine relative to the guys that won them. If a guy was not a key component on a superbowl team, his chances clearly decline. This is really going to hurt Don's chances, thus far he hasn't been on a superbowl winning team, and if we do win it hurts him just as much since guys like Rodgers, Woodson, Matthews (?), and Finley (?) (possibly Collins too) would get hall looks before him, he likely would run into the too many HOF players on a SB team problem before he got in.

The big play test - This is less of a necessity, but it can provide a significant boost. If a player is known for a single play of greatness, it will signficantly improve their chances, especially if that play occurred on a big spot (even though the outcome was not in his favor, Woodson does have the tuck rule play going for him in this test, not as big of a boost as say James Harrison's pick 6 in the superbowl, but it will help him). Don has made a lot of nice plays, but he hasn't made one special memorable play in a big spot. The last Packer WR to make a single play that would help their HOF chances was Freeman's long TD catch in the Superbowl.

Don has a long way to go, and at his age it is very doubtful he'd get there. He basically would have to be the best WR in the league for a couple years here at the tail end of his career to give him a shot.

When you look at the guys that played the majority of their career in the 00's, Driver's peers, I think that Owens, Moss, Bruce, and Harrison are the ones that have a shot, each will get looks long before Don, outperforming him in every signle one of these tests.

[MichiganPackerFan]

WOO HOO!!!! A Waldo sighting!!!

Thanks for the rundown!

[Pugger]

They showed a stat in the preseason game against the COLTs that had Drivers numbers second only to Wayne over the same stretch of what? 6-7 years. There's something missing in Driver's resume compared to other top WRs. What could it be.

A ring?

[mraynrand]

They showed a stat in the preseason game against the COLTs that had Drivers numbers second only to Wayne over the same stretch of what? 6-7 years. There's something missing in Driver's resume compared to other top WRs. What could it be.

A ring?

Yeah, that's it. Look at Waldo's post. Driver can't get to those great stat numbers that other receivers have, so the only thing that could get him in would be a series of memorable plays on the way to and in at least one winning Superbowl.

As to Waldo's point about too many guys from one team making the HOF from one Superbowl team, just look at the '96 team - How many of those guys will make the hall who didn't play significant amounts of their careers elsewhere. White, Favre and then? Keith Jackson (pretty much a cup of coffee in GB), Outside chances for Jones (Houston), maybe Butler (stats? memorable Superbowl sack?), maybe even Sharper (didn't start until '97 so missed the '96 ring, Longevity, Superbowl with N.O., some stats), Craig Hentirch (LOL). And those four/five were much better relative to their positions than Driver...

[Fritz]

There's Waldo!

Great to see you back!

Say, can you give the link to your page?

[Smidgeon]

WOO HOO!!!! A Waldo sighting!!!

Thanks for the rundown!

+1

[Airin' Rodgers]

I think the biggest reason he wont make the hall is the biggest reason he should: His unselfishness as a player. Often times, WR's are divas. If you look at the current in the hall, many of them were either the ONLY legititate wr threat on the team through most of their careers, or they were "get me the ball I make plays" type of person.

Driver has never been that kind of player, and he and STILL produced.

Drive is possibly the best YAC WR to ever play the game. Read that again "possibly the best at something involving wr's to ever play the game". That alone is HOF worthy.

Oh, and did someone forget to mention how Driver has, and can, make the same sort of plays all those big name WR's do make? How many one handed guys draping all over him catches does he need to make? How many times must he go over the middle, knowing he is going tgo get lit up, and still holds onto the ball? How many times has he caught it in double coverage?

Driver CAN make the same plays the big names make - he's proven it. The thing he doesn't do is "demand the football goes his way". If he was like that, chances are he is close to 100 catches every year. Instead, he lets his teammates do there thing, and when the time comes, driver is just sneaky good. You forget about him for just a moment - next thing you know he makes a highlight reel catch.

If we just compare it straight up to those in the hall...

He will:

1. Have the statistics (barring injury) that are the same level as a majority of the HOF's - catches, yards, and TDs.

2. Have one key statistic he holds over most the rest - YAC.

3. While who he is as a person isn't overly relevant for the HoF, it can't hurt either. The fact he is alright not being the guy, even though he is fully capable of always being the guy, is a reason he should get in. Despite not "being hte guy" - what do all those others that have come in to "be the guy" shown? That they aren't the guy.

Consisetency goes a long way. Driver has always been our #1 - but none of the other #1's who supplanted him lasted in this league as a star, save the exception of jennings.

Even with Jennings, I think you'll be surprised how even the splits are.

2008

Jennings - 80 catches, 1292 yards, 9tds (his breakout year)
Driver - 74 catches, 1012 yards, 5tds

Almost even in the looks they got, as you can see with roughly the same amount of catches. Jennings made more plays down the field - which ultimately lead to his higher yards and td's. Driver caught significantly more 1st downs, however, being the target of choice when you needed to move the chains.

2009

Jennings - 68 catches, 1113 yards, 4 tds
Driver - 70 catches, 1061 yards, 6 tds


Pretty debatable JUST LAST SEASON who our #1 was. Again, very even splits, and both made there share of highlight reel catches and big plays during the season.


Someone also mentioned that walker supplanted him for 2 seasons - wrong, he had one dominant year, got hurt the first game the following season - and essentially you guys know the rest. Horrible character AND horrible player on the field.

Since 2003, he has one just one season without at least 70 catches and a 1000 yards. The season he didn't, his incumbant was... Walker... who we all known wanted the ball on every single play. Thats the numbers driver could have every year if he was the same way.


But he's not. THat is why I think he deserves the hall. He has the numbers, he has the remarkable consistency with numbers over the years, he has only ever been supplanted as the #1 guy really one time in his career (as I just showed, the splits are dead even with Jennings - showing it isn't exactly clear that Jennings is the true #1, even if he is listed.


Driver also has the advantage this season so far.

9 Catches in two games for 68 yards and and 2tds.

Jenning has 2 catches for 8 yards and 1td.


That tells me that Driver is still getting more open than the rest of the WR's around him, and is still considered the first read on a majority of plays intended for anyone other than Finley. Point being, it's debatable on if Driver is the #1 right now - and there is a strong case so far this season for it.


He is as good as almost every WR I have seen play except Sharpe. He can do what most the other wr's do - he just doesn't demand he gets the ball every snap.

Good post overall. I agree with most of the points. However, Jennings has 118 yards... Not 8

[swede]

If you wanted to get Gureski to post you had to say something good about Craig Nall.

Apparently the number for Waldo's Batphone is pushing Donald Driver for the NFL Hall of Fame!

Keep in mind, I don't think that DD qualifies NOW, I think it would be interesting if DD performs like DD does for another five years. Is it likely that DD gets 60 receptions, 800 yards, and 5 TDs a year for the next five years? No. Is such a thing possible? Yes.

[Waldo]

Keep in mind, I don't think that DD qualifies NOW, I think it would be interesting if DD performs like DD does for another five years. Is it likely that DD gets 60 receptions, 800 yards, and 5 TDs a year for the next five years? No. Is such a thing possible? Yes.

But he would still fail the best test miserably and have no shot.

[Lurker64]

If Driver won a superbowl MVP, do you think that would get him in?

[Waldo]

If Driver won a superbowl MVP, do you think that would get him in?

No.

Driver needs some first team all-pro's on his resume to have a shot.

Being superbowl MVP would just cut down on the # that he needs.

[sharpe1027]

HoF is too much of a popularity contest. Micheal Irvin gets in before Art Monk? Please. I wish they had a more definitive guideline (maybe something like Waldo suggests), but they don't.