Nick Collins attacks a fan...

[mraynrand]

Here's a place I wouldn't go after dark (not even with Riddick):

[Brandon494]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIrKtoHYPsE

This actually does go both ways my brother.

For the most part whites have dropped racial bias. When a few ignorant whites spoute off they are instantly ostracized and verbally beaten down by OTHER WHITES.

When blacks act like this man other blacks make excuses for him.

When I encounter a MAN I judge him on HIM. The color of his skin doesn't come into play. However, many black people think that I should give him a pass for some reason or another. I believe that is an insult to every black man that excels and thrives.

So, you think blacks act a certain way and whites act in another way, yet you don't think that you judge people based upon the color of their skin. We would all like to think of ourselves as completely unbiased, but it isn't a simple issue.

Yes. I do think that. I KNOW that. I see it on a daily basis. I gave examples. I can do it over and over. When I point out factual information, you don't get the right to say that I "think" something, therefore I judge them on the color of their skin...it doesn't work that way. Its called cultural. It has nothing to do with skin color. Racism implies thinking a race is superior. Prejudice implies judging someone without facts. My comments had nothing to do with that. Making blanket ACCURATE stereotype statements is not racism. At the extreme ends of the bell curve black men are faster than white men. FACT!! Culturally in America Black people are more fond of watermelon. FACT!! Any given black man is faster than a white man and more fond of watermelon...FICTION!!

I never did get that sterotype about watermelon. I've never met anyone white or black who didn't like watermelon or fried chicken for that matter.

Our biggest problem with race right here, right now, is that while most whites have moved on, most blacks have not. that is cultural, nothing to do with skin color. 10 years ago, it was not that way. Blacks certainly have had unfair treatment throughout history in America. In today's America, not really. I know too many hard working African Americans that have excelled through all sorts of diversity.

So 10 years has really changed America that much to you? Trust me we have have a long ways to go.

A black man who wants to "kill cracker babies" was up on charges of voter intimidation. Video evidence had him dead to rights. No white man in a similar situation would have EVER had the charges dropped. Yet the AG of the USA has dropped the charges. This is CAUSING racial tension, not helping it. This is also an example of how a black AG and president have made a decision based on race rather than the merits of the case.

That guy is just crazy and was influenced by his elders at a young age just like most KKK members. Yea he said "kill babies" but how is dropping the charges against him any different then dropping the charges against a cop for shooting a unarmed black kid? Except for the fact that bullets hurt alittle more than words.

[mraynrand]

how is dropping the charges against him any different then dropping the charges against a cop for shooting a unarmed black kid?

Was he stealing beer from a garage?

[Brandon494]

how is dropping the charges against him any different then dropping the charges against a cop for shooting a unarmed black kid?

Was he stealing beer from a garage?

http://cbs13.com/national/Robert.Tolan.shot.2.902245.html

Here is the HBO Story: Catch a re-run and watch it.

Black in Bellaire

Robbie Tolan dreamed of following in the footsteps of his father, retired Major League Baseball outfielder Bobby Tolan. But in the early morning of Dec. 31, 2008, those dreams may have ended in a confrontation with police in affluent, predominantly white Bellaire, Tex. Wrongly suspected of stealing his own car, Tolan and his cousin were detained at gunpoint by police on the doorstep of his family's home. A moment later, Robbie Tolan's parents watched as their son was shot in the chest by a police officer. In an extended report, host Bryant Gumbel examines this disturbing case and interviews the Tolan family as they speak out for the first time about race and the night that changed everything.


Correspondent: Bryant Gumbel
Producer: David Scott



Robbie Tolan

Shortly before 2:00am on December 31 2008, Robbie Tolan, a twenty-three-year-old baseball prospect, was shot by police in front of his home in Bellaire, Texas. The shooting occurred after police mistook Robbie Tolan's vehicle for a stolen car. Robbie's parents, Bobby and Marian Tolan witnessed the shooting as they stood in their driveway wearing their pajamas. Robbie Tolan survived the shooting, and was recently released from the hospital. But he has a bullet lodged in his liver and his baseball future has been cast in serious doubt. Since the shooting, HBO Real Sports, has been investigating how such a tragic event came to pass.

Baseball is a family affair for the Tolan's. Bobby Tolan enjoyed a successful 14-year career as a Major League player. He was a member of the World Champion St. Louis Cardinals in 1967, and in the 1970s, he played for Cincinnati's famed big red machine. Known for his bolting speed, Bobby Tolan, led the National League in stolen bases in 1970.

After retiring from the game, Mr. Tolan settled his family in Bellaire, an affluent white enclave surrounded by greater Houston. It had nice homes, great schools, and a strong baseball tradition with a roster of homegrown pro's like Chuck Knoblauch, Jose Cruz, jr. and Bubba Crosby.

A passion for baseball took hold early and was rooted deep in Robbie Tolan. After high school, Robbie played college baseball for Prairie View A&M, winning a conference title in 2007. Afterwards he was signed by the Washington Nationals and played for a year in their farm system. Released by the Nationals last year, Robbie Tolan was still determined to carve out a career in baseball. He played for the independent Bay Toros in Galveston, Texas last season and was currently training in preparation for an invite back to spring training this season.

On the night of the shooting Robbie was returning home with his cousin, Anthony Cooper, 20, with fast food from a nearby Jack in the Box. Officer John Edwards, of the Bellaire Police Department, ran Robbie Tolan's license plate information. When he entered the plate information incorrectly, Robbie Tolan's Xterra SUV came back as stolen, according to the Bellaire Police.

Officer Edwards called for back up and Sgt. Jeffery Cotton arrived on the scene. The two officers confronted Robbie Tolan and Anthony Cooper as they were approaching the front door of their home.

"There was no, 'this is the police' or nothing. Just emerges from the dark." said Robbie Tolan. "The gun, flashlight pointed at me and my cousin, 'Get down on the ground.'"

Robbie and Anthony were both lying on the ground when Marian and Bobby Tolan heard the commotion and came outside.

"And I said, 'this is my house my car, my son, my nephew. It's not stolen,'" said Bobby Tolan.

The Tolans then say that Sgt. Cotton pushed Mrs. Tolan against the garage door. At that point, Robbie reared up off the ground and said: "Get your #### hands off my mom!" Sgt. Cotton then turned and fired his gun hitting Robbie Tolan in the chest.

"The guy never said a word," said Marian Tolan. "He never said, 'shut up,' he never said 'get down' or 'stay down.' He never said a word, he picked his gun, he took his gun and he just shot him."

The entire incident unfolded quickly. Two minutes past from when Robbie and Anthony exited their vehicle to when Robbie was shot, according to the Bellaire Police incident report.

The Bellaire Police issued a press release immediately after the shooting stating that Sgt. Jeff Cotton: "had no previous disciplinary record."

Real Sports has since learned that Sgt. Cotton and Officer Edwards both have significant blemishes on their records. Officer Edwards has been reprimanded six times and was suspended without pay for violating the department's sexual harassment policy in 2005. Sgt. Cotton has been reprimanded three times and was suspended without pay after misleading investigators about a 2002 traffic accident, one of three crashes he's caused.

Since the Tolan incident, Bellaire officials have said very little about the shooting. They've deferred to the Harris county district attorney's office who are conducting the official investigation into the shooting. The Harris county D.A. won't comment on the case until their investigation has concluded. But the pretext for the shooting has fueled a longstanding debate over the extent to which Bellaire police engage in racial profiling and target minorities.

Bellaire has a population of almost 16,000 and is less than one percent black. However, in 2007, 22 percent of the of the motorists given traffic tickets in Bellaire were black and 39 percent of the motorists who were stopped and searched were black, according to data collected by the Bellaire Police Department.

In 2005, black drivers in Bellaire were almost 12 times more likely to be pulled over and asked for a consent search than whites. Compared with the rest of Houston, black drivers were four times more likely than whites to be searched, according to the Texas Criminal Justice Coalition, a non-profit organization that collects and compiles data on race and traffic stops.

Bellaire officials maintain that they have a proactive police force, but they do not engage in racial profiling. They say the disproportionate numbers relating to race and police pullovers are explained by the high volume of non-Bellaire residents who commute through the city to more racially diverse parts of Houston. Interstate 610, know as the "loop" that encircles metropolitan Houston, passes through Bellaire. Since the Tolan shooting they've hired an outside consultant to examine and reassess the issue of racial profiling in the police department.

The Tolans want to see sweeping changes in Bellaire's civilian and police leadership. But they are skeptical that the district attorney will ever get to the bottom of the shooting.

"You know what, I don't care if we get it here or not," said Marian Tolan, referring to justice in her son's case. "We're gonna get it somewhere. Cause we're not stopping. We're not stopping."

Doctors say Robbie Tolan was fortunate to survive the life threatening gunshot, but no one can predict how far or fast he will recover. Because the bullet will remain in his liver, there is a constant risk of infection to the vital organ.

When asked whether or not the ship has sailed on his baseball career, Robbie Tolan replied with a sigh: "the part with the bullet in it."

[bobblehead]

Yes. I do think that. I KNOW that. I see it on a daily basis. I gave examples. I can do it over and over. When I point out factual information, you don't get the right to say that I "think" something, therefore I judge them on the color of their skin...it doesn't work that way. Its called cultural. It has nothing to do with skin color. Racism implies thinking a race is superior. Prejudice implies judging someone without facts. My comments had nothing to do with that. Making blanket ACCURATE stereotype statements is not racism. At the extreme ends of the bell curve black men are faster than white men. FACT!! Culturally in America Black people are more fond of watermelon. FACT!! Any given black man is faster than a white man and more fond of watermelon...FICTION!!

Our biggest problem with race right here, right now, is that while most whites have moved on, most blacks have not. that is cultural, nothing to do with skin color. 10 years ago, it was not that way. Blacks certainly have had unfair treatment throughout history in America. In today's America, not really. I know too many hard working African Americans that have excelled through all sorts of diversity.

A black man who wants to "kill cracker babies" was up on charges of voter intimidation. Video evidence had him dead to rights. No white man in a similar situation would have EVER had the charges dropped. Yet the AG of the USA has dropped the charges. This is CAUSING racial tension, not helping it. This is also an example of how a black AG and president have made a decision based on race rather than the merits of the case.

I never called you racist. I simply repeated what you said, you found that offensive.

Your implication was very clear. You also said " yet you don't think that you judge people based upon the color of their skin". The clear implication is that I'm prejudice. No other conclusion can be drawn from your statement. yet I clearly say that I judge a man based on THAT man when I meet him. Again, as blanket statements, stereotypes are pretty accurate, but not necessarily negative. My german grandma LOVED saurkraut....is that a negative? No, but its a stereotype.

[bobblehead]

Yes. I do think that. I KNOW that. I see it on a daily basis. I gave examples. I can do it over and over. When I point out factual information, you don't get the right to say that I "think" something, therefore I judge them on the color of their skin...it doesn't work that way. Its called cultural. It has nothing to do with skin color. Racism implies thinking a race is superior. Prejudice implies judging someone without facts. My comments had nothing to do with that. Making blanket ACCURATE stereotype statements is not racism. At the extreme ends of the bell curve black men are faster than white men. FACT!! Culturally in America Black people are more fond of watermelon. FACT!! Any given black man is faster than a white man and more fond of watermelon...FICTION!!

Our biggest problem with race right here, right now, is that while most whites have moved on, most blacks have not. that is cultural, nothing to do with skin color. 10 years ago, it was not that way. Blacks certainly have had unfair treatment throughout history in America. In today's America, not really. I know too many hard working African Americans that have excelled through all sorts of diversity.

A black man who wants to "kill cracker babies" was up on charges of voter intimidation. Video evidence had him dead to rights. No white man in a similar situation would have EVER had the charges dropped. Yet the AG of the USA has dropped the charges. This is CAUSING racial tension, not helping it. This is also an example of how a black AG and president have made a decision based on race rather than the merits of the case.

I never called you racist. I simply repeated what you said, you found that offensive.

Incidentally, I didn't find it offensive, i simply found it wrong.

[bobblehead]

OK, this is an outsiders view, but I have a couple of obvserations.

1) The afro american is far superior in sports than his african counterparts, except maybe marathons. Why? The breeding programmes during the slave times brd for performance. Not the reason at all, and not accurate. The 10 fastest times ever recorded in the 100m can be genetically traced to a small area in Africa. The fastest of all was run by a Jamaican of African descent. No White man has ever run a sub 10 second 100M. When I was in high school I could outrun 85% of all black athletes. You cannot prejudge an individual, but you can make accurate stereotypes....some cultural, some genetic. Breeding has NOTHING to do with black superiority in sports. East Africans are the best distance runners in the world and West Africans are the best sprinters (that is...American, carribean and England blacks). That is FACT, not racism, prejudice or anything else.
2) There are places in America that you get beeaten to a pulp if you are white. I doubt that's true vice a versa. The opposite is true, but its a smaller number of places. There are places a black man would be beaten for being black (sadly) but not nearly as many as the opposite, and not nearly with as much certainty.
3) It's OK for a black person to call another black person a Nigger, but wo be tid if a white person says it. And where the hell did Wigger come from anyways?

Like I said, I'm an outsider, just making a few observations.

[vince]

I clearly say that I judge a man based on THAT man when I meat him.

I never dreamed you were a midnight cowboy Bobble, not that there's anything wrong with that of course.

[bobblehead]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIrKtoHYPsE

This actually does go both ways my brother.

For the most part whites have dropped racial bias. When a few ignorant whites spoute off they are instantly ostracized and verbally beaten down by OTHER WHITES.

When blacks act like this man other blacks make excuses for him.

When I encounter a MAN I judge him on HIM. The color of his skin doesn't come into play. However, many black people think that I should give him a pass for some reason or another. I believe that is an insult to every black man that excels and thrives.

So, you think blacks act a certain way and whites act in another way, yet you don't think that you judge people based upon the color of their skin. We would all like to think of ourselves as completely unbiased, but it isn't a simple issue.

Yes. I do think that. I KNOW that. I see it on a daily basis. I gave examples. I can do it over and over. When I point out factual information, you don't get the right to say that I "think" something, therefore I judge them on the color of their skin...it doesn't work that way. Its called cultural. It has nothing to do with skin color. Racism implies thinking a race is superior. Prejudice implies judging someone without facts. My comments had nothing to do with that. Making blanket ACCURATE stereotype statements is not racism. At the extreme ends of the bell curve black men are faster than white men. FACT!! Culturally in America Black people are more fond of watermelon. FACT!! Any given black man is faster than a white man and more fond of watermelon...FICTION!!

I never did get that sterotype about watermelon. I've never met anyone white or black who didn't like watermelon or fried chicken for that matter.

Our biggest problem with race right here, right now, is that while most whites have moved on, most blacks have not. that is cultural, nothing to do with skin color. 10 years ago, it was not that way. Blacks certainly have had unfair treatment throughout history in America. In today's America, not really. I know too many hard working African Americans that have excelled through all sorts of diversity.

So 10 years has really changed America that much to you? Trust me we have have a long ways to go.

A black man who wants to "kill cracker babies" was up on charges of voter intimidation. Video evidence had him dead to rights. No white man in a similar situation would have EVER had the charges dropped. Yet the AG of the USA has dropped the charges. This is CAUSING racial tension, not helping it. This is also an example of how a black AG and president have made a decision based on race rather than the merits of the case.

That guy is just crazy and was influenced by his elders at a young age just like most KKK members. Yea he said "kill babies" but how is dropping the charges against him any different then dropping the charges against a cop for shooting a unarmed black kid? Except for the fact that bullets hurt alittle more than words.

Cops get aquitted of killing folks of all color, thats just the way it is. Sadly it is true that blacks get harrassed a bit more from cops than whites. HOWEVER, I can't recall many white leaders fighting for the cops who beat Rodney King, yet AG Holder is dropping the charges against this nutjob when they have him on video intimidating white voters.

Recently in Vegas there were two incidents.

1) cops served a suspect warrant against a kid dealing pot. When he was on his knees the cop blasted his head off claiming he was reaching for a gun (black kid). he walked.
2) Erik Scott, a west point grad was gunned down in front of costco by 3 police officers. The evidence included cops recovering his gun IN ITS HOLSTER laying next to him, yet an eyewitness testified that Scott "pointed his gun right at the officers". That was enough to get them a walk.

Also to your points. I love watermelon. I hate fried chicken...thats just me. I speak to percentages. and yes, I believe we have come a long way in 10 years. Work to be done? Sure, but not the way you are thinking. I truly think racial bias is minimal now. If a black man gives a better interview he will get the job. If a white man with tatoos on the back of his hands interviews he has about the same chance as a black man wearing his pants on his thighs. I don't think that was the case 10 years ago.

[bobblehead]

I clearly say that I judge a man based on THAT man when I meat him.

I never dreamed you were a midnight cowboy Bobble, not that there's anything wrong with that of course.

Doh....I edited it, but you had me already.

[mraynrand]

. My german grandma LOVED saurkraut....is that a negative? .

My german grandmother loved a sour Kraut. man was he negative.

[MichiganPackerFan]

And I still think Collins should have punched the dude in the kisser. Good for him for being the better man.

Agree - I truly hope Kharma will smack that asshole bears fan up.

[hoosier]

I clearly say that I judge a man based on THAT man when I meat him.

I never dreamed you were a midnight cowboy Bobble, not that there's anything wrong with that of course.

[sharpe1027]

Your implication was very clear. You also said " yet you don't think that you judge people based upon the color of their skin". The clear implication is that I'm prejudice. No other conclusion can be drawn from your statement. yet I clearly say that I judge a man based on THAT man when I meet him. Again, as blanket statements, stereotypes are pretty accurate, but not necessarily negative. My german grandma LOVED saurkraut....is that a negative? No, but its a stereotype.

What ever the implication you think there was, it came straight from what you had said. So if your are going to be all up in arms at anyone, it should be yourself.

[sharpe1027]

Yes. I do think that. I KNOW that. I see it on a daily basis. I gave examples. I can do it over and over. When I point out factual information, you don't get the right to say that I "think" something, therefore I judge them on the color of their skin...it doesn't work that way. Its called cultural. It has nothing to do with skin color. Racism implies thinking a race is superior. Prejudice implies judging someone without facts. My comments had nothing to do with that. Making blanket ACCURATE stereotype statements is not racism. At the extreme ends of the bell curve black men are faster than white men. FACT!! Culturally in America Black people are more fond of watermelon. FACT!! Any given black man is faster than a white man and more fond of watermelon...FICTION!!

Our biggest problem with race right here, right now, is that while most whites have moved on, most blacks have not. that is cultural, nothing to do with skin color. 10 years ago, it was not that way. Blacks certainly have had unfair treatment throughout history in America. In today's America, not really. I know too many hard working African Americans that have excelled through all sorts of diversity.

A black man who wants to "kill cracker babies" was up on charges of voter intimidation. Video evidence had him dead to rights. No white man in a similar situation would have EVER had the charges dropped. Yet the AG of the USA has dropped the charges. This is CAUSING racial tension, not helping it. This is also an example of how a black AG and president have made a decision based on race rather than the merits of the case.

I never called you racist. I simply repeated what you said, you found that offensive.

Incidentally, I didn't find it offensive, i simply found it wrong.

So did I.