Woodson - Is it "a" or "b"?

[MJZiggy]

I thought Al was coming back at safety for a while.

[Deputy Nutz]

Well I think it is probably neither. Sure he is old for a corner in this league and probably doesn't have the reaction time he did 5 years ago, but I also think that the secondary doesn't have Al Harris, which means Williams is starting and not the nickle, which leave the nickel to Sam Shields who is hurt which leave the position to Pat Lee or Bush right now. Morgan Burnett was a rookie who was in the learning process and now he is hurt, sub in Peprah. No consistency in the secondary.

[packerbacker1234]

He had a bunch of penalities last year too. In fact, I am fairly certain every year in the league he has been penalized a lot. Remember all the penalties Al Harris use to get?

When you play bump and run coverage (tight, physical, man on man coverage) there is going to be contact on almost every play. It's whether or not you get called for it. Woodson got his fair share of penalities last year - but it felt like so much less because for 11 games we had Harris bump and run the #1 WR and let Woodson cover the slot/roam the field, reading the QB, and making plays. This year, it seems clear the packers don't have that same confidence in Tramon Williams - this leaves Woodson in one on one with the #1 guy a lot.

Stats for #1 WR's against us this year:

Deshean Jackson - 4 catches 30 yards
Lee Evans - 0 catches
Johnny Knox - 4 catches, 94 yards
Calvin Johnson - 6 catches, 86 yards, 2 tds - by far Woodson's worse performance of the year, though he did notably make every single stop on the final drive, including two batted passes one on one with Johnson - so he stepped up when we needed him most.
Santana Moss - 7 Catches, 118 yards

Of this, it is important to note that Woodson is never just assigned to the #1 guy (like harris or revis are), we did move him around and he got his hands on a few balls - it's only on key drives that Woodson right now is solely on their best WR.

When I look at the question I go with option C: None of the above.

Woodson is fine, He was penalized last year, and he's pretty good in bump and run one on one. A LOT of penalties seem to be him arriving to EARLY, not too late. People are like "oh he's beat so..." so what? He's arriving early, that aint cause he's beat. You arrive late when you are beat and grab the jersey. He's flat out arriving early, meaning he is on top of the play. he just has to hold back about 1 second longer most hte time.

Hands to the face isn't really on him either. That happens time to time in bump and run coverage. Just ask Harris.

[Patler]

He already has seven penalties. That is generally about a years worth of penalties. Seven total and 4 PI penalties in five games is an extraordinary pace.

Something isn't right.

[pbmax]

Its still about the matchups and Woodson has been in some unfavorable ones. Woodson is a great player but asking him to run with Santana Moss without being able to challenge him at the line is trouble. When looking at the Packers CB corps Woodson is easily the slowest. Trying to win a footrace against any of the others is just a waste of time. Offensive coordinators obviously like this matchup.

If your assertion is true, then Woodson is in trouble. He is not a bump and run CB and never has been. His game is not Al Harris' game. He presses, meaning he mirrors the receiver if he is in man coverage. In Sanders defense, even when in man, one on one, he did not challenge the receiver physically at the line.

He has played the off coverage dictated by Capers defense well before. That he has had trouble doing so lately in not because he must be on the line.

[pbmax]

When you play bump and run coverage (tight, physical, man on man coverage)

That is not the coverage or technique he is usually playing. And versus Moss, he was off the line.

[3irty1]

Its still about the matchups and Woodson has been in some unfavorable ones. Woodson is a great player but asking him to run with Santana Moss without being able to challenge him at the line is trouble. When looking at the Packers CB corps Woodson is easily the slowest. Trying to win a footrace against any of the others is just a waste of time. Offensive coordinators obviously like this matchup.

If your assertion is true, then Woodson is in trouble. He is not a bump and run CB and never has been. His game is not Al Harris' game. He presses, meaning he mirrors the receiver if he is in man coverage. In Sanders defense, even when in man, one on one, he did not challenge the receiver physically at the line.

He has played the off coverage dictated by Capers defense well before. That he has had trouble doing so lately in not because he must be on the line.

Press coverage and bump-and-run are almost the same thing. Press means lining up over the WR and bump and run is the most common technique to use while in press. The DB lines up directly over his receiver and immediately gets his hands on the receiver in order to reroute them and screw up their timing and position. Harris is arguably the best ever at the technique but Woodson has the size and physical playing style that also make him among the best. Under Bob Sanders where press coverage was the norm, Woodson and Harris were considered the best CB tandem in the league. What do you mean he's not a bump-and-run corner? He's a pro-bowler in that scheme.

Lets not act like Woodson won DPOTY honors because of his lock down coverage anyways. He makes an exceptional amount of plays as a defensive back. He can win the game for you. He's still doing that and his coverage isn't bad either. The penalties of late are a result of being asked to beat faster players at their own game. If I'm right then the trend should stop this week against Miami with Bess and Marshall.

[imscott72]

He just turned 34. I think it's a combination of A and B. Someone kill me now for suggesting this, but I wonder how the secondary would look with Woodson at safety with Collins, Harris at nickle, and Bush on the corner. Yes Bush, is Bush, but he's improved and does have the speed to hang at least and hopefully would cut down on penalties. Now convincing Woodson to go to safety is a nother matter all together.

[gbgary]

Its still about the matchups and Woodson has been in some unfavorable ones. Woodson is a great player but asking him to run with Santana Moss without being able to challenge him at the line is trouble. When looking at the Packers CB corps Woodson is easily the slowest. Trying to win a footrace against any of the others is just a waste of time. Offensive coordinators obviously like this matchup.

If your assertion is true, then Woodson is in trouble. He is not a bump and run CB and never has been. His game is not Al Harris' game. He presses, meaning he mirrors the receiver if he is in man coverage. In Sanders defense, even when in man, one on one, he did not challenge the receiver physically at the line.

He has played the off coverage dictated by Capers defense well before. That he has had trouble doing so lately in not because he must be on the line.

Press coverage and bump-and-run are almost the same thing...

yup. get up in their face. until this year that's all he and al have been playing. they're playing more zone this year. chuck is fine! the D is hanging in there. it's the O that's the problem. they can't put together drives so the D is out there most of the time and they're getting tired.

[bobblehead]

I think we have a reputation for drawing flags now and the refs are tossing the hanky on anything close....ask ray lewis about it.

[mmmdk]

The injury has got to be the main reaseon 'cos Chuck doesn't lose his abilities overnight. Woody might have lost a step but that would stil have him at a pro bowl level. A turf hurts and now chuck is playing at the NFL average for CBs - barely.

Injuries suck but don't Packer fans know it!?

[Patler]

The injury has got to be the main reaseon 'cos Chuck doesn't lose his abilities overnight. Woody might have lost a step but that would stil have him at a pro bowl level. A turf hurts and now chuck is playing at the NFL average for CBs - barely.

Injuries suck but don't Packer fans know it!?

Not overnight, but he might have over an off-season, especially after a physically demanding season last year. At the end of the year he was pretty beat-up.

Lots of pro athletes say they know when to retire when they come back one season, and suddenly can't do what they were able to do just a few months before.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

There is nothing wrong with Woodson. He is still a top three corner in football. We didn't lose the Redskins game b/c of Woodson. We lost b/c the offense couldn't move the ball in the second half the MM is a crap coach.

Even the best players give up plays they when keep being put in high pressure situations. Yes he gets called for a lot but a lot of that has to do with the retard refs. They don't call fair games for us at all. Where was the call on Rodgers when he threw the pick? What the hell call was that on Poppinga? What about the no holding call on Matthews in the end zone? If I was Woodson I would be holding too, the other team gets away with whatever they want and we get called for everything. Thats what really needs to be discussed.

[MJZiggy]

He just turned 34. I think it's a combination of A and B. Someone kill me now for suggesting this, but I wonder how the secondary would look with Woodson at safety with Collins, Harris at nickle, and Bush on the corner. Yes Bush, is Bush, but he's improved and does have the speed to hang at least and hopefully would cut down on penalties. Now convincing Woodson to go to safety is a nother matter all together.

What about Williams???

[Patler]

There is nothing wrong with Woodson. He is still a top three corner in football. We didn't lose the Redskins game b/c of Woodson. We lost b/c the offense couldn't move the ball in the second half the MM is a crap coach.

Even the best players give up plays they when keep being put in high pressure situations. Yes he gets called for a lot but a lot of that has to do with the retard refs. They don't call fair games for us at all. Where was the call on Rodgers when he threw the pick? What the hell call was that on Poppinga? What about the no holding call on Matthews in the end zone? If I was Woodson I would be holding too, the other team gets away with whatever they want and we get called for everything. Thats what really needs to be discussed.

I wasn't blaming him for the Washington loss, but to me 7 coverage penalties in 5 games is alarming. Like I said, that was about what he used to get for a full season, and he has done it in just 5 games, with at least one in each game.

I also don't think you can blame the refs. Quite a few of Woodson's have come when he dragged a guy down from behind. Most have been blatant penalties, not subtle ones detected on replays. He has had plenty of others that he could have been called on as well, but the refs have let them go, or didn't see them.

Sure, Woodson has also made a number of plays. But I am concerned about the way he is playing, overall.