Woodson - Is it "a" or "b"?

[Smidgeon]

There is nothing wrong with Woodson. He is still a top three corner in football. We didn't lose the Redskins game b/c of Woodson. We lost b/c the offense couldn't move the ball in the second half the MM is a crap coach.

Even the best players give up plays they when keep being put in high pressure situations. Yes he gets called for a lot but a lot of that has to do with the retard refs. They don't call fair games for us at all. Where was the call on Rodgers when he threw the pick? What the hell call was that on Poppinga? What about the no holding call on Matthews in the end zone? If I was Woodson I would be holding too, the other team gets away with whatever they want and we get called for everything. Thats what really needs to be discussed.

I wasn't blaming him for the Washington loss, but to me 7 coverage penalties in 5 games is alarming. Like I said, that was about what he used to get for a full season, and he has done it in just 5 games, with at least one in each game.

I also don't think you can blame the refs. Quite a few of Woodson's have come when he dragged a guy down from behind. Most have been blatant penalties, not subtle ones detected on replays. He has had plenty of others that he could have been called on as well, but the refs have let them go, or didn't see them.

Sure, Woodson has also made a number of plays. But I am concerned about the way he is playing, overall.

The last PI against Woodson where he looked mad as hell, I actually didn't think was a PI despite how bad it looked. On the replay, it looked like the receiver was going down for the pass by himself. Woodson had his hand on the WR's shoulder, but didn't change the receivers route or move his body until the ball got there. I thought he used the receiver well without impeding the attempted catch.

Obviously, I could be wrong. But I think it's a case of something seeming different than it was. And I can't blame the refs (or anyone) for the way it was called because it looked bad. I just saw it a different way.

[imscott72]

He just turned 34. I think it's a combination of A and B. Someone kill me now for suggesting this, but I wonder how the secondary would look with Woodson at safety with Collins, Harris at nickle, and Bush on the corner. Yes Bush, is Bush, but he's improved and does have the speed to hang at least and hopefully would cut down on penalties. Now convincing Woodson to go to safety is a nother matter all together.

What about Williams???

What about Williams? He's on the other corner.

[get louder at lambeau]

There is nothing wrong with Woodson. He is still a top three corner in football. We didn't lose the Redskins game b/c of Woodson. We lost b/c the offense couldn't move the ball in the second half the MM is a crap coach.

Even the best players give up plays they when keep being put in high pressure situations. Yes he gets called for a lot but a lot of that has to do with the retard refs. They don't call fair games for us at all. Where was the call on Rodgers when he threw the pick? What the hell call was that on Poppinga? What about the no holding call on Matthews in the end zone? If I was Woodson I would be holding too, the other team gets away with whatever they want and we get called for everything. Thats what really needs to be discussed.

I wasn't blaming him for the Washington loss, but to me 7 coverage penalties in 5 games is alarming. Like I said, that was about what he used to get for a full season, and he has done it in just 5 games, with at least one in each game.

I also don't think you can blame the refs. Quite a few of Woodson's have come when he dragged a guy down from behind. Most have been blatant penalties, not subtle ones detected on replays. He has had plenty of others that he could have been called on as well, but the refs have let them go, or didn't see them.

Sure, Woodson has also made a number of plays. But I am concerned about the way he is playing, overall.

I'm with you. If Williams was doing this, people would be saying that he's not starting caliber, just a good nickel. If it was Shields, they'd say it was because he's too raw. If it was Pat Lee, people would say he just sucks and was a wasted pick. If it was Bush, people would say it's inexcusable and he should have been cut years ago. But since it's Woodson...

I tend to think it's GOT to be a lot to do with his turf toe. Any offensive coordinator and #1 WR worth their salt should be able to see how it's hampering him and exploit it, assuming that it means he can't cut very well in one direction. Woodson has never really been a true lockdown corner. He's a risk-taking ballhawk more than anything. He relies on his instincts to jump routes, or punches the ball out on tackles. If he can't burst off his big toe, he'll have a lot of trouble getting there.

The Lions abused him for three quarters with their second string QB targeting him constantly. He was great in the 4th quarter and redeemed himself in spades with the INT/TD.

He had a lot of penalties against Washington and was part of Cooley's big catch and run in the highlight videos with a failed tackle that looks like he knocked Poppinga off the TE. He just wasn't very good.

Moral of the story is that I think it's mostly his turf toe. I'll shut up now.

[pbmax]

Press coverage and bump-and-run are almost the same thing. Press means lining up over the WR and bump and run is the most common technique to use while in press. The DB lines up directly over his receiver and immediately gets his hands on the receiver in order to reroute them and screw up their timing and position. Harris is arguably the best ever at the technique but Woodson has the size and physical playing style that also make him among the best. Under Bob Sanders where press coverage was the norm, Woodson and Harris were considered the best CB tandem in the league. What do you mean he's not a bump-and-run corner? He's a pro-bowler in that scheme.

Lets not act like Woodson won DPOTY honors because of his lock down coverage anyways. He makes an exceptional amount of plays as a defensive back. He can win the game for you. He's still doing that and his coverage isn't bad either. The penalties of late are a result of being asked to beat faster players at their own game. If I'm right then the trend should stop this week against Miami with Bess and Marshall.

Woodson doesn't use the bump much at all. And while I cannot say he has never used it, I don't remember it even during Sanders time. Harris uses it to slow down, interrupt and redirect the receiver. Woodson does that by positioning but not an initial thud.

There is another term, rather than press, to describe the difference between bump and run and Woodson's technique, though my mind is blanking on it. My point though, is that Woodson's technique was more easily translated to playing off the WR in more of a zone concept. I do not think he is at a disadvantage off the receiver unless Patler's premise (or some other factor) is true.

[pbmax]

yup. get up in their face. until this year that's all he and al have been playing. they're playing more zone this year. chuck is fine! the D is hanging in there. it's the O that's the problem. they can't put together drives so the D is out there most of the time and they're getting tired.

That is flat not the case. Woodson has spent significant time in the slot in nickel and bumping that receiver is problematic because they are off the LOS.

Harris has played more press technique than most corners in this defense, but Woodson has been off quite a bit this year and last.

[Bretsky]

He just turned 34. I think it's a combination of A and B. Someone kill me now for suggesting this, but I wonder how the secondary would look with Woodson at safety with Collins, Harris at nickle, and Bush on the corner. Yes Bush, is Bush, but he's improved and does have the speed to hang at least and hopefully would cut down on penalties. Now convincing Woodson to go to safety is a nother matter all together.

Lock your doors

Guido is on his way over to take you down

[3irty1]

Press coverage and bump-and-run are almost the same thing. Press means lining up over the WR and bump and run is the most common technique to use while in press. The DB lines up directly over his receiver and immediately gets his hands on the receiver in order to reroute them and screw up their timing and position. Harris is arguably the best ever at the technique but Woodson has the size and physical playing style that also make him among the best. Under Bob Sanders where press coverage was the norm, Woodson and Harris were considered the best CB tandem in the league. What do you mean he's not a bump-and-run corner? He's a pro-bowler in that scheme.

Lets not act like Woodson won DPOTY honors because of his lock down coverage anyways. He makes an exceptional amount of plays as a defensive back. He can win the game for you. He's still doing that and his coverage isn't bad either. The penalties of late are a result of being asked to beat faster players at their own game. If I'm right then the trend should stop this week against Miami with Bess and Marshall.

Woodson doesn't use the bump much at all. And while I cannot say he has never used it, I don't remember it even during Sanders time. Harris uses it to slow down, interrupt and redirect the receiver. Woodson does that by positioning but not an initial thud.

There is another term, rather than press, to describe the difference between bump and run and Woodson's technique, though my mind is blanking on it. My point though, is that Woodson's technique was more easily translated to playing off the WR in more of a zone concept. I do not think he is at a disadvantage off the receiver unless Patler's premise (or some other factor) is true.

Woodson didn't mug his guy the way Harris did but would definitely gain position and leverage to delay the route before dropping back before humping his guy down the field. Not as textbook as Harris, but gives him a chance to diagnose routes and create turnovers.

My point was that for any corner who is up against superior speed, some type of press coverage is an equalizer. Its not like Woodson can't do it, he's a professional cornerback.

[pbmax]

Press coverage and bump-and-run are almost the same thing. Press means lining up over the WR and bump and run is the most common technique to use while in press. The DB lines up directly over his receiver and immediately gets his hands on the receiver in order to reroute them and screw up their timing and position. Harris is arguably the best ever at the technique but Woodson has the size and physical playing style that also make him among the best. Under Bob Sanders where press coverage was the norm, Woodson and Harris were considered the best CB tandem in the league. What do you mean he's not a bump-and-run corner? He's a pro-bowler in that scheme.

Lets not act like Woodson won DPOTY honors because of his lock down coverage anyways. He makes an exceptional amount of plays as a defensive back. He can win the game for you. He's still doing that and his coverage isn't bad either. The penalties of late are a result of being asked to beat faster players at their own game. If I'm right then the trend should stop this week against Miami with Bess and Marshall.

Woodson doesn't use the bump much at all. And while I cannot say he has never used it, I don't remember it even during Sanders time. Harris uses it to slow down, interrupt and redirect the receiver. Woodson does that by positioning but not an initial thud.

There is another term, rather than press, to describe the difference between bump and run and Woodson's technique, though my mind is blanking on it. My point though, is that Woodson's technique was more easily translated to playing off the WR in more of a zone concept. I do not think he is at a disadvantage off the receiver unless Patler's premise (or some other factor) is true.

Woodson didn't mug his guy the way Harris did but would definitely gain position and leverage to delay the route before dropping back before humping his guy down the field. Not as textbook as Harris, but gives him a chance to diagnose routes and create turnovers.

My point was that for any corner who is up against superior speed, some type of press coverage is an equalizer. Its not like Woodson can't do it, he's a professional cornerback.

I gotcha. But what was the distance for a first? He may not have needed to stay with him, just on top of him.

[Patler]

Are we seeing the answer to my question?:

Whitt, on cornerback Charles Woodson: “I think he will have a big game Sunday. If he doesn’t, I will be totally surprised.” . . .

Two more penalties, more receptions, more of Woodson falling and not being with receivers. Doesn't appear to be any injuries. Coaches acknowledging this week that he is being outplayed by Williams.

Harris won't be the answer, not coming back from the injury he had, not when he is only about 10-11 months post-op.

[mmmdk]

I was wrong - it's "b".

[channtheman]

Woodson has gone from DPOY to worse than Jarrett Bush in one season.

[3irty1]

Friend of mine speculates that Woodson is still sour about what big physical receivers are getting away with in the NFL after the Arizona game. Claims that Woodson said something before the season about how he intended to be just as physical. If this is the case he's costing us games.

[packerbacker1234]

Friend of mine speculates that Woodson is still sour about what big physical receivers are getting away with in the NFL after the Arizona game. Claims that Woodson said something before the season about how he intended to be just as physical. If this is the case he's costing us games.

Woodson isn't costing us games.


The lack of ability for our offense to score points is. He may be getting penalized, but bottom line is that the defense is doing a good job at keeping points off the board, while our offense likes to continue to go 3 and out most the game.

[MichiganPackerFan]

He's an aging corner. His best years are behind him. Love him and I hope he plays better. Maybe move him to safety?

[pbmax]

Friend of mine speculates that Woodson is still sour about what big physical receivers are getting away with in the NFL after the Arizona game. Claims that Woodson said something before the season about how he intended to be just as physical. If this is the case he's costing us games.

Woodson isn't costing us games.


The lack of ability for our offense to score points is. He may be getting penalized, but bottom line is that the defense is doing a good job at keeping points off the board, while our offense likes to continue to go 3 and out most the game.

I agree about the offense, but his penalties have kept drives alive at least four, possibly more times so far this season. Its costing them effort, field position and possession. If it was deep and prevented a TD, maybe that is one thing. But on 3rd and 8 when you or others can make a play, it hurts.