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  • #16
    Re: The Packers Running game

    Originally posted by CaptainKickass
    So - didn't we conclude that Cliffy and Tausch excel at pass blocking, but their weakness is run blocking?

    And - Didn't we also conclude that Bulaga, Spitz, Lang, College and Wells are better run blockers than pass blockers, and more ideally suited to a power running game?

    And - isn't it accepted that Kuhn is more of a power running back, and the fullback Quinn Johnson is a bruiser/bulldozer type of fullback?

    If these are true - then where the hell is our running game? Shouldn't we have at least a passable power running game if the above is true and we simply sub Cliffy and Tausch a bit more often?

    I'm no coach - but I've been hanging round here for far too long to not have some ideas.
    Clifton, Tauscher, and Wells are relics before McCarthy's time. Clifton and Tauscer have excellent size, good pass blocking technique, but are poor athletes by today's standards. Especially Tauscher. As far as scheme fit, both are more suited to a power running game style where lineman need not be as athletic. McCarthy bases his offense on a zone blocking system although in the NFL every team runs every kind of blocking scheme there is. So they are only starting due to their pass blocking technique which is fading quickly. As for Wells, he's undersized for a center but does an exceptional job anchoring against bull rushers and is athletic enough to do well with zone blocking assignments. He is equally suited for any scheme.

    College, Spitz, Sitton, Lang, Bulaga, and everyone else ever Drafted by TT after 2005 have some common threads that TT seems to look for in a lineman. TT cares about footwork, speed, pass blocking technique, size, attitude, versatility, and strength all in that order. I'd argue that TJ Lang is the ultimate TT lineman, he has all of those qualities. College was a tackle in college and was always believed to hold that upside but I doubt he's seen by the staff as more than a guard at this point. As a guard he is a passable pass blocker and excels at hitting the moving target down the field as a run blocker. He's certainly stronger now than when he came out but is still not a mauler in the run game. He's probably best suited for zone blocking. Spitz has a pretty well rounded skill set who could do well in any kind of scheme but was a good fit for us at C where his extra size would give him an advantage over opposing nose tackles. Sitton has a wide frame and while not the most fluid athlete can get down the field and maul. His style is well suited to either scheme but his ability to tie up a defender is what makes him special. He's not a dominate force at guard but he'll be reliable and will seal of a lot of lanes for MM's zbs. Bulaga is a good athlete and polished technician but is no doubt best suited for zone blocking. He has all the skills necessary and comes from Iowa, the zone blocking capitol of college football. Lang and Newhouse both fit the ZBS perfectly and are completely versatile as well.

    To answer where our running game has gone, I'd point to our RBs. To run in the ZBS you should be quick and decisive. Jackson is neither. Kuhn at least has some vision and the ability to fall forward but isn't the home run threat that will keep the defense honest without a serious commitment to the running game. Starks or Nance could be the solution but we won't know until either of them gets a few carries.
    70% of the Earth is covered by water. The rest is covered by Al Harris.

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    • #17
      We sure did have 157yds, but only 13 carries. I just hate the # 13 It should be like the no 13th floor in a hotel. it could have at least been 14 fer chrysler's sake. We had the opportunity to get a 200 yd day on the ground.

      As far as the "oh the packers put in this sub package of lineman, they're gonna run" goes - you still have the opportunity to pass or run out of any formation. Just like Dom subs in D-Lineman in a rotation - how 'bout we try a little of that here and there on the "O"?
      "Everyone's born anarchist and atheist until people start lying to them" ~ wise philosopher

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      • #18
        Originally posted by CaptainKickass
        We sure did have 157yds, but only 13 carries. I just hate the # 13 It should be like the no 13th floor in a hotel. it could have at least been 14 fer chrysler's sake. We had the opportunity to get a 200 yd day on the ground.

        As far as the "oh the packers put in this sub package of lineman, they're gonna run" goes - you still have the opportunity to pass or run out of any formation. Just like Dom subs in D-Lineman in a rotation - how 'bout we try a little of that here and there on the "O"?
        Subbing OL isn't all that common compared to subbing DL. By swapping around players on the OL you can mess up the chemistry. This is not nearly as much of a problem with the DL who play what might be the most physically exhausting positions in football.
        70% of the Earth is covered by water. The rest is covered by Al Harris.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by packrulz
          BJack busted through for a long run against the 'Skins, and Kuhn is a threat on the goal line, I'm baffled why M3 gives up on the run so easily, his offense is becoming too pass happy.
          "On Sunday at Washington, fourth-year back Brandon Jacksoncertainly looked the part of a lead back, posting a career-high 115 yards on just 10 carries (11.5 avg.). It was Green Bay’s first 100-yard rusher since Grant posted 137 yards on the ground at Chicago last season in Week 14."
          Both BJack and Kuhn are averaging 4.6 yds per carry. M3 needs to run the ball more to eat the clock on long, sustained drives and make play action work better, otherwise, expect ARod to take a beating.
          I don't know either. We proved it first against Detroit that when we run block half way decently we can run the damn ball when we have to with the personnel we now have. MM is gonna get Rodgers killed...

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Pugger
            Originally posted by packrulz
            BJack busted through for a long run against the 'Skins, and Kuhn is a threat on the goal line, I'm baffled why M3 gives up on the run so easily, his offense is becoming too pass happy.
            "On Sunday at Washington, fourth-year back Brandon Jacksoncertainly looked the part of a lead back, posting a career-high 115 yards on just 10 carries (11.5 avg.). It was Green Bay’s first 100-yard rusher since Grant posted 137 yards on the ground at Chicago last season in Week 14."
            Both BJack and Kuhn are averaging 4.6 yds per carry. M3 needs to run the ball more to eat the clock on long, sustained drives and make play action work better, otherwise, expect ARod to take a beating.
            I don't know either. We proved it first against Detroit that when we run block half way decently we can run the damn ball when we have to with the personnel we now have. MM is gonna get Rodgers killed...
            I think he gave up when we couldn't punch it in from the 1.
            "Greatness is not an act... but a habit.Greatness is not an act... but a habit." -Greg Jennings

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            • #21
              Originally posted by MJZiggy
              Originally posted by Pugger
              Originally posted by packrulz
              BJack busted through for a long run against the 'Skins, and Kuhn is a threat on the goal line, I'm baffled why M3 gives up on the run so easily, his offense is becoming too pass happy.
              "On Sunday at Washington, fourth-year back Brandon Jacksoncertainly looked the part of a lead back, posting a career-high 115 yards on just 10 carries (11.5 avg.). It was Green Bay’s first 100-yard rusher since Grant posted 137 yards on the ground at Chicago last season in Week 14."
              Both BJack and Kuhn are averaging 4.6 yds per carry. M3 needs to run the ball more to eat the clock on long, sustained drives and make play action work better, otherwise, expect ARod to take a beating.
              I don't know either. We proved it first against Detroit that when we run block half way decently we can run the damn ball when we have to with the personnel we now have. MM is gonna get Rodgers killed...
              I think he gave up when we couldn't punch it in from the 1.
              IF that's true, it's doubly stupid, make that triply stupid. 1) he snuck Rodgers - that's just dumb in general to put your QB at risk - my opinion, 2) Teams are geared to stop the run on the goaline and succeed even against good run teams and 3) so what? You just ran B Jack for 70. Keep going back to the well. The whole point of the run game is it forces the defense to defend everything. When you put Rodgers in an empty backfield in shotgun, gee, what do you think the Packers are gonna do. Sure, Stubby will tell you how efficient they are, but until they start proving it, they need to have more facets to the offense. Get a clue, Stubby!
              "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

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              • #22
                Stubby's reaction when B Jack ran for 70 should have been: "Holy shit, we just ran for 70, I'm going to mix in a bunch more inside runs and put the 'skins on their heels," Not - "hey that's great, we got big run so I'll only have to run 12 more times to get to 100." Moron.
                "Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - Woodbuck

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by packrulz
                  BJack busted through for a long run against the 'Skins, and Kuhn is a threat on the goal line, I'm baffled why M3 gives up on the run so easily, his offense is becoming too pass happy.
                  "On Sunday at Washington, fourth-year back Brandon Jacksoncertainly looked the part of a lead back, posting a career-high 115 yards on just 10 carries (11.5 avg.). It was Green Bay’s first 100-yard rusher since Grant posted 137 yards on the ground at Chicago last season in Week 14."
                  Both BJack and Kuhn are averaging 4.6 yds per carry. M3 needs to run the ball more to eat the clock on long, sustained drives and make play action work better, otherwise, expect ARod to take a beating.
                  Good post and I totally agree with your assessment here.

                  It's about the clock. Control.

                  Maybe MM wants 'the quick six', and isn't willing to rish discipline issue's (penaltys)? Get out ahead 10-14 points and then bang it out?

                  GO PACKERS!
                  ** Since 2006 3 X Pro Pickem' Champion; 4 X Runner-Up and 3 X 3rd place.
                  ** To download Jesus Loves Me ring tones, you'll need a cell phone mame
                  ** If God doesn't fish, play poker or pull for " the Packers ", exactly what does HE do with his buds?
                  ** Rather than love, money or fame - give me TRUTH: Henry D. Thoreau

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by mraynrand
                    Originally posted by MJZiggy
                    Originally posted by Pugger
                    Originally posted by packrulz
                    BJack busted through for a long run against the 'Skins, and Kuhn is a threat on the goal line, I'm baffled why M3 gives up on the run so easily, his offense is becoming too pass happy.
                    "On Sunday at Washington, fourth-year back Brandon Jacksoncertainly looked the part of a lead back, posting a career-high 115 yards on just 10 carries (11.5 avg.). It was Green Bay’s first 100-yard rusher since Grant posted 137 yards on the ground at Chicago last season in Week 14."
                    Both BJack and Kuhn are averaging 4.6 yds per carry. M3 needs to run the ball more to eat the clock on long, sustained drives and make play action work better, otherwise, expect ARod to take a beating.
                    I don't know either. We proved it first against Detroit that when we run block half way decently we can run the damn ball when we have to with the personnel we now have. MM is gonna get Rodgers killed...
                    I think he gave up when we couldn't punch it in from the 1.
                    IF that's true, it's doubly stupid, make that triply stupid. 1) he snuck Rodgers - that's just dumb in general to put your QB at risk - my opinion, 2) Teams are geared to stop the run on the goaline and succeed even against good run teams and 3) so what? You just ran B Jack for 70. Keep going back to the well. The whole point of the run game is it forces the defense to defend everything. When you put Rodgers in an empty backfield in shotgun, gee, what do you think the Packers are gonna do. Sure, Stubby will tell you how efficient they are, but until they start proving it, they need to have more facets to the offense. Get a clue, Stubby!
                    YES!

                    PACKERS!
                    ** Since 2006 3 X Pro Pickem' Champion; 4 X Runner-Up and 3 X 3rd place.
                    ** To download Jesus Loves Me ring tones, you'll need a cell phone mame
                    ** If God doesn't fish, play poker or pull for " the Packers ", exactly what does HE do with his buds?
                    ** Rather than love, money or fame - give me TRUTH: Henry D. Thoreau

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                    • #25
                      An antsy M3 answers questions about the running game.

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                      • #26
                        I just don't agree with M3's philosophy, sure, they have great receivers and they often gain a lot of yards after the catch, but Super Bowl contenders have a balanced offense, he's going to need the running game when the snow is flying and Lambeau gets sloppy. Lombardi knew that, it made them champions.
                        Thanks Ted!

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Tarlam!
                          An antsy M3 answers questions about the running game.

                          http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/105112999.html
                          Yes, Mikey seems rather irritated, doesn't he?
                          "The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."

                          KYPack

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                          • #28
                            We don't necessarily need the second coming of Adrian Peterson but MM abandons the run to quickly if it stalls. If you stop even attempting to run the damn thing defenses just pin their ears back and try to kill our Franchise QB. This philosophy is crazy, especially seeing officials turn a blind eye whenever Rodgers gets hit in the head.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Fritz
                              Originally posted by Tarlam!
                              An antsy M3 answers questions about the running game.

                              http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/105112999.html
                              Yes, Mikey seems rather irritated, doesn't he?
                              Wonder if it's in response to how questions were asked. Reporters seem to have lost the art of finesse in getting information out of their sources. In reading that I kind of get the feeling he trusts the line less than he trusts his runningbacks.
                              "Greatness is not an act... but a habit.Greatness is not an act... but a habit." -Greg Jennings

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by MJZiggy
                                Originally posted by Fritz
                                Originally posted by Tarlam!
                                An antsy M3 answers questions about the running game.

                                http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/105112999.html
                                Yes, Mikey seems rather irritated, doesn't he?
                                Wonder if it's in response to how questions were asked. Reporters seem to have lost the art of finesse in getting information out of their sources. In reading that I kind of get the feeling he trusts the line less than he trusts his runningbacks.
                                +1
                                But Rodgers leads the league in frumpy expressions and negative body language on the sideline, which makes him, like Josh Allen, a unique double threat.

                                -Tim Harmston

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