Francois penalty - poor coaching

[Patler]

It appears the Packer coaches do not even understand how the officials interpret the alignment penalty. MM talked about the "Yard and a half" distance:

"Robert was lined up a yard and a half from the snapper."

According to Hochuli, they evaluate it in a different way:

'He’s got to be outside the center’s shoulders or else he’s got to be back more than a yard off the line, and that’s judged by whether, does he have a foot or any part of his body up within, if you look from the sideline, up within the linemen that are down on the ground."

Pictures show that Francois was within the linemen.

[ND72]

Re: Francois penalty - poor coaching

It appears the Packer coaches do not even understand how the officials interpret the alignment penalty. MM talked about the "Yard and a half" distance:

"Robert was lined up a yard and a half from the snapper."

According to Hochuli, they evaluate it in a different way:

'He’s got to be outside the center’s shoulders or else he’s got to be back more than a yard off the line, and that’s judged by whether, does he have a foot or any part of his body up within, if you look from the sideline, up within the linemen that are down on the ground."

Pictures show that Francois was within the linemen.

Post game radio & TV both read straight from the rule book, and nowhere in the rule book say the player must be outside the center's shoulders...He must only line up one yard and a half off of the line of scrimmage. Refs interpreted the rule the way they wanted to.

[Patler]

Re: Francois penalty - poor coaching

Post game radio & TV both read straight from the rule book, and nowhere in the rule book say the player must be outside the center's shoulders...He must only line up one yard and a half off of the line of scrimmage. Refs interpreted the rule the way they wanted to.

You are a coach, aren't you? I coached (not football) for quite a few years, and was in a position to be in on the decisions for hiring coaches. Knowing the rule is only part of it. Good coaches coach to the interpretation of the rule. In this situation, the officials can't run up and measure the distance, so, as in a lot of situations, they use a "crutch". Good coaches, in this situation good ST coaches, learn what the "crutch" is and coach to it.

Rule changes are presented by the league to the coaching staffs. I wonder how many good ST coaches asked the simple question, "How do you determine if he is a yard-and-a-half out from the line of scrimmage?" Hochuli seemed pretty matter-of-fact in how they do it, even saying it has to be a delayed call because officials from two different positions have to consult. I doubt it was simply something his crew dreamed up. I suspect it is something they have been instructed to look for in that way.

Slocum should know that.

[ND72]

good point Patler. Coaches should have never put the team in that situation...

[packerbacker1234]

You also have to look at it in the other light as well. Francois hasn't exactly been active and practicing special teams as an actual game time participant, if at all, until this week. Part of it could be due to inexperience, not just coaching.

At the same time, while you should know how things get interpretted, the problem is that every single referee out there interrupts things differently. According to the actual rule, Francious did nothing wrong. He was not lined up wrong, and did not impeded with the actual rules. Look at it like late hits and helmet to helmet hits on AR - apparently that is all subjective to interpretation as well, even though the rules are pretty clear, and they are pretty clear with lining up over the center.

If you are a yard and half back, you can line up wherever the hell you want. If you are within a yard and half, you can't be lined up over the center. Part of the explanation given for the penalty by the ref was what his own mind tacked onto the actual rule - and is not part of the rulebook as it stands. Another referee may not have thrown the flag at all. Looking at the film, we've had a guy in a similar position lined up like that for most of this season without drawing a flag.

[pbmax]

Its a great point. Clifton, when he is flagged for illegal formation, has a very similar problem. He sits straight up in his set, and his head is further off the LOS than other tackles. Linesman, at least in one explanation I read, judge the alignment of the tackles in two point stances by the position of their head in comparison to the center.

By his feet, or lower half of his body, he is within the rules. But since they are looking at his head, he gets flagged for it.

[pbmax]

You also have to look at it in the other light as well. Francois hasn't exactly been active and practicing special teams as an actual game time participant, if at all, until this week. Part of it could be due to inexperience, not just coaching.

At the same time, while you should know how things get interpretted, the problem is that every single referee out there interrupts things differently. According to the actual rule, Francious did nothing wrong. He was not lined up wrong, and did not impeded with the actual rules. Look at it like late hits and helmet to helmet hits on AR - apparently that is all subjective to interpretation as well, even though the rules are pretty clear, and they are pretty clear with lining up over the center.

If you are a yard and half back, you can line up wherever the hell you want. If you are within a yard and half, you can't be lined up over the center. Part of the explanation given for the penalty by the ref was what his own mind tacked onto the actual rule - and is not part of the rulebook as it stands. Another referee may not have thrown the flag at all. Looking at the film, we've had a guy in a similar position lined up like that for most of this season without drawing a flag.

If Francois was really a yard and a half back, which might be the way they coach him to position himself, he probably would not have an issue. But from the JSO picture, his head is almost exactly one yard of the ball. Too close for comfort.

[MichiganPackerFan]

JSO's picture show's him lined up legally: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/105143599.html

Yet another subjective call going against GB. Hopefully next year, when we're healthy enough to compete, we'll get SOME calls to go our way.

[Cheesehead Craig]

He just needed to be about a foot back and he would have been fine. Not that he had a chance to block the kick, but why even line up there in the first place?

[MichiganPackerFan]

He just needed to be about a foot back and he would have been fine. Not that he had a chance to block the kick, but why even line up there in the first place?

THe picture shows he was already six inches (minimum) behind the limit. They made that call over a timeout and there's no excuse for not getting it right. If the rule is a yard and he's a yard and an inch, they have no right to bring in a rare call.

[mmmdk]

Penalties and turnovers -- things often attributed to poor coaching.

[MichiganPackerFan]

Penalties and turnovers -- things often attributed to poor coaching.

often, the officiating has been terrible too.

[Patler]

He just needed to be about a foot back and he would have been fine. Not that he had a chance to block the kick, but why even line up there in the first place?

THe picture shows he was already six inches (minimum) behind the limit. They made that call over a timeout and there's no excuse for not getting it right. If the rule is a yard and he's a yard and an inch, they have no right to bring in a rare call.

I don't see how that picture shows him to be lined up legally, if no part of his body can be within a yard and a half of the LOS. It looks like he is about a yard off, to me.

[gbgary]

poor coaching...i agree.

[MichiganPackerFan]

He just needed to be about a foot back and he would have been fine. Not that he had a chance to block the kick, but why even line up there in the first place?

THe picture shows he was already six inches (minimum) behind the limit. They made that call over a timeout and there's no excuse for not getting it right. If the rule is a yard and he's a yard and an inch, they have no right to bring in a rare call.

I don't see how that picture shows him to be lined up legally, if no part of his body can be within a yard and a half of the LOS. It looks like he is about a yard off, to me.

According to the article, the rule is a yard, not a yard and a half. It was another subjective game changing call. If we had our full squad, calls like that wouldn't matter and if they did, we would probably be in a position where we deserved to lose. With a decayed roster, those calls matter, and if its not clear, dont call it.