Stupid NFL Rule - End Zone

[Spaulding]

VS needed a hand under the ball. What he did is a textbook trap.

No way. That was a catch and a crap call. What else is the guy supposed to do. Im glad we got the call, but it was awful. As a football fan, how can you take plays like that away from players?

He's supposed to catch the football. Just because he tried really hard doesn't make it a catch.

I mentioned in the game thread that this was as poorly officiated a game as I remember seeing in a while, and not just one or two big blown calls. Having to go to replay on those two TD where feet weren't only out of bounds, but out by half a foot was ridiculous. Meanwhile they missed Q's lack of possession, interference on Jennings by ol' Frankie W on the INT, and then there were the fucking terrible spots throughout the game. If the NFL thinks Sunday night football is their headline game of the week, they need to make sure the officiating crew is up to the challenge of playing on national television too.

I agree with your post. Except it was a catch. In college, the old days of the NFL it would have been a catch. Just like the Detroit Chicago game. Its criminal to take those plays away from players no matter whom youre cheering for.

When is it a catch when the ball hits the ground first? Also, if this was college Harvin's catch would have been legit given he had one foot in - thank goodness they got the call right on both catches.

[pbmax]

When you are running into the endzone, you already have possession. So breaking the plane is enough for me.

But the rules about what is a catch are non-sensical except from the point of view of the referee and the replay booth. Its a rule that makes no common sense, but is easy to officiate and replay. It helps the referees do their job, but it does not stand logically on its own.

As for Shiancoe, after the last replay of the night, I did see something that agreed with the decision. When he is going down, his hands are in one position on the ball, after he rolls over on the ground, his hands are located differently on the ball, meaning something (hands or ball) has changed position. But like Bretsky, 99/100 I think that gets called a catch. We'll see if the NFL sends out more info on it.

But I have not known what a catch is for two years.

I don't think they made it any easier to officiate, they just changed what the argument/decision is about. Instead of deciding whether the ball touched the ground, they need to decide whether the WR used the ground to aid in the catch. I don't see that as making it easier.

Well, using the ground to help secure the ball is a new one to me, unless its just a new way to say trapped.

I meant the going to the ground and maintaining control of the ball. What they have done is given the refs two points of reference, the first is two feet inbounds and the second is control of the football until the play is over and the player gets up from the ground. Easy to judge as they can watch for the first and then wait for the second. The only question is control at same time feet come down which is reviewable.

But the practical result of that easy to ref rule is that Calvin Johnson makes a catch and while getting up to celebrate, he drops the ball. No catch. Which makes no sense if you have ever watched or played football.

[Airin' Rodgers]

Something I was hoping someone could help me out on..

On Rodgers 2nd interception, the one tipped in the endzone. I thought it was pretty clear that Walker ran out of bounds, came back in, and then tipped the ball.

Since he was the first one to touch it after being out of bounds, isn't that an illegal touch penalty? Someone help me out here

[Cheesehead Craig]

Something I was hoping someone could help me out on..

On Rodgers 2nd interception, the one tipped in the endzone. I thought it was pretty clear that Walker ran out of bounds, came back in, and then tipped the ball.

Since he was the first one to touch it after being out of bounds, isn't that an illegal touch penalty? Someone help me out here

Only applies to the offensive player.

[bobblehead]

He's supposed to catch the football. Just because he tried really hard doesn't make it a catch.

I mentioned in the game thread that this was as poorly officiated a game as I remember seeing in a while, and not just one or two big blown calls. Having to go to replay on those two TD where feet weren't only out of bounds, but out by half a foot was ridiculous. Meanwhile they missed Q's lack of possession, interference on Jennings by ol' Frankie W on the INT, and then there were the fucking terrible spots throughout the game. If the NFL thinks Sunday night football is their headline game of the week, they need to make sure the officiating crew is up to the challenge of playing on national television too.

Not to mention Mathews getting smashed in the head/chin about five different times (that I saw). I guess at least they called that once.

Yea, this crew was horrible, but at least they benefitted us with their ineptitude once. I commented to friends that the crew missed the first 3 or 4 TD calls. They got everyone wrong. Then they got the one wrong at the end where harvin was out by at least 2 feet. They were so bad that the Quarless TD they fucked up on replay.

I don't mind the intent of the new rule, but the application is sketchy. CJ was getting up when he lost the ball. Last year Jennings took almost 2 full steps with possession before being tackled out of bounds and losing it. Those should be TD's. Quarless clearly dropped the ball. They were so busy seeing if he landed in bounds they never noticed (or did minny not challenge possession, merely him coming in bounds?).

Clay took so many hands to the facemask he pushed his own helmet off so he could see once. The only call they made is when his head was nearly ripped off. Our guys did some nice holding as well this game without getting called.

My biggest gripe of the day was the non call on FWalker that lead to an interception. He grabs, pulls and then pushes GJ out of bounds in the open field about 15 yards off the line and they miss it?? HOW? And it did lead to the pick as GJ would have blown by him and had an easy TD without the interference. The call was a gamechanger, but this team still persevered.

MM made me proud winning his first two challenges, but not challenging the spot on that 3rd down play was awful. Its your ball, you have time to look at it upstairs, you got timeouts....for God sake if you are going for it anyway, challenge it. If you lose, go for it.


I have other gripes, but I can say this. I love our D even banged up...lets get it relatively healthy. We are running effectively on first down out of the I when everyone in the stadium knows its coming....lets do more of it. Arod is adjusting to life without finley. The OL is coming around.

The kool aid is flowing, bring on the Jets.

[Airin' Rodgers]

He's supposed to catch the football. Just because he tried really hard doesn't make it a catch.

I mentioned in the game thread that this was as poorly officiated a game as I remember seeing in a while, and not just one or two big blown calls. Having to go to replay on those two TD where feet weren't only out of bounds, but out by half a foot was ridiculous. Meanwhile they missed Q's lack of possession, interference on Jennings by ol' Frankie W on the INT, and then there were the fucking terrible spots throughout the game. If the NFL thinks Sunday night football is their headline game of the week, they need to make sure the officiating crew is up to the challenge of playing on national television too.

Not to mention Mathews getting smashed in the head/chin about five different times (that I saw). I guess at least they called that once.

Yea, this crew was horrible, but at least they benefitted us with their ineptitude once. I commented to friends that the crew missed the first 3 or 4 TD calls. They got everyone wrong. Then they got the one wrong at the end where harvin was out by at least 2 feet. They were so bad that the Quarless TD they fucked up on replay.

I don't mind the intent of the new rule, but the application is sketchy. CJ was getting up when he lost the ball. Last year Jennings took almost 2 full steps with possession before being tackled out of bounds and losing it. Those should be TD's. Quarless clearly dropped the ball. They were so busy seeing if he landed in bounds they never noticed (or did minny not challenge possession, merely him coming in bounds?).

Clay took so many hands to the facemask he pushed his own helmet off so he could see once. The only call they made is when his head was nearly ripped off. Our guys did some nice holding as well this game without getting called.

My biggest gripe of the day was the non call on FWalker that lead to an interception. He grabs, pulls and then pushes GJ out of bounds in the open field about 15 yards off the line and they miss it?? HOW? And it did lead to the pick as GJ would have blown by him and had an easy TD without the interference. The call was a gamechanger, but this team still persevered.

MM made me proud winning his first two challenges, but not challenging the spot on that 3rd down play was awful. Its your ball, you have time to look at it upstairs, you got timeouts....for God sake if you are going for it anyway, challenge it. If you lose, go for it.


I have other gripes, but I can say this. I love our D even banged up...lets get it relatively healthy. We are running effectively on first down out of the I when everyone in the stadium knows its coming....lets do more of it. Arod is adjusting to life without finley. The OL is coming around.

The kool aid is flowing, bring on the Jets.

Good post. But Minnesota never challenged the Quarless TD. Which is why it stood. If they challenged, I'm sure the call would have been reversed

[sharpe1027]

Well, using the ground to help secure the ball is a new one to me, unless its just a new way to say trapped.

I meant the going to the ground and maintaining control of the ball. What they have done is given the refs two points of reference, the first is two feet inbounds and the second is control of the football until the play is over and the player gets up from the ground. Easy to judge as they can watch for the first and then wait for the second. The only question is control at same time feet come down which is reviewable.

But the practical result of that easy to ref rule is that Calvin Johnson makes a catch and while getting up to celebrate, he drops the ball. No catch. Which makes no sense if you have ever watched or played football.

I agree 100% that the rule has created ridiculous results.

Just how easy is it to judge "control of the football?" I think you just have a whole new set of close calls that are difficult to officiate (like the Shancoe play).

I would also argue that because it was a new rule without any previous application, they could have ruled the C. Johnson play a catch by stating that he maintained possession to the ground and then released it upon an effort toward getting up. Now, they are stuck with a stupid result and we will likely end up yet another rule change.

[mngolf19]

My biggest issue was that they called Shiancoe's a TD and felt they had enough evidence to overturn that call. How many times have we seen evidence that refs say wasn't enough to overturn a call? You can question whether this was a TD or not, but to say there was clear evidence to overturn the call on the field, not in my opinion.

[hoosier]

My biggest issue was that they called Shiancoe's a TD and felt they had enough evidence to overturn that call. How many times have we seen evidence that refs say wasn't enough to overturn a call? You can question whether this was a TD or not, but to say there was clear evidence to overturn the call on the field, not in my opinion.

The clear evidence would be that the ball clearly touched the ground and his hold on it clearly shifted as that was happening. He didn't bobble it but he didn't have a tight enough grip on the ball for it to remain in the same position either. Look at the replay on nfl.com if you doubt that. I'm not sure what the rule book says, but that sounds to me like as good a definition of "maintaining control" as any.

[mngolf19]

My biggest issue was that they called Shiancoe's a TD and felt they had enough evidence to overturn that call. How many times have we seen evidence that refs say wasn't enough to overturn a call? You can question whether this was a TD or not, but to say there was clear evidence to overturn the call on the field, not in my opinion.

The clear evidence would be that the ball clearly touched the ground and his hold on it clearly shifted as that was happening. He didn't bobble it but he didn't have a tight enough grip on the ball for it to remain in the same position either. Look at the replay on nfl.com if you doubt that. I'm not sure what the rule book says, but that sounds to me like as good a definition of "maintaining control" as any.

His hands move, but I think anytime a receiver lands in that manner his hands are going to move. Question is whether the ball was secured or not. And I still don't see "clear evidence" that it wasn't. I would have completely understood if the ref didn't call it a catch in real time and would not have expected the replay to show evidence otherwise.

[red]

like i said before. the tip of the ball clearly hit the ground. i always thought that ment automatic incomplete until the play last night when everyone questioned it

i mean, thats why guys that dive for balls turn their bodies to the side and ball the ball in so the ball never hits the ground

obviously something have to be done to clarify what is and isn't a catch because there have been a ton of questionable calls this year and everyone is confused as to what is and isn't a catch

[Little Whiskey]

MM made me proud winning his first two challenges, but not challenging the spot on that 3rd down play was awful. Its your ball, you have time to look at it upstairs, you got timeouts....for God sake if you are going for it anyway, challenge it. If you lose, go for it.

I didn't want him to challange that play. it was his last challenge, and it was early in the 4th (i think). there was alot of football to play. the way the officiating was going he might have had to challange a more important play. if that Percy TD happens outside of 2mins he would have had to challange that. which would have been a bigger play than a spot on 3rd down.

speaking of Harvin's TD/non-TD. I'd have to look at the replay again, but at first glance i didn't think he even got one foot in bounds. the second foot was clearly out. those guys were horrible all night both ways. but its easier for us to swollow because of the positive packer outcome.

[Brandon494]

NFL just confirmed that it should have been a TD catch. LOL sorry Vikings

[CaptainKickass]

My biggest issue was that they called Shiancoe's a TD and felt they had enough evidence to overturn that call. How many times have we seen evidence that refs say wasn't enough to overturn a call? You can question whether this was a TD or not, but to say there was clear evidence to overturn the call on the field, not in my opinion.

The clear evidence would be that the ball clearly touched the ground and his hold on it clearly shifted as that was happening. He didn't bobble it but he didn't have a tight enough grip on the ball for it to remain in the same position either. Look at the replay on nfl.com if you doubt that. I'm not sure what the rule book says, but that sounds to me like as good a definition of "maintaining control" as any.

His hands move, but I think anytime a receiver lands in that manner his hands are going to move. Question is whether the ball was secured or not. And I still don't see "clear evidence" that it wasn't. I would have completely understood if the ref didn't call it a catch in real time and would not have expected the replay to show evidence otherwise.

I'm pretty sure y'all are missing out on the "when" of the situation. The ball touched the ground FIRST - as in - before any part of the player touches the ground.

Pretty sure the rules are black and white about this. If the ball touches the ground FIRST - then it ain't a catch.

.

[CaptainKickass]

NFL just confirmed that it should have been a TD catch. LOL sorry Vikings

I still agree with the call in the game. The ball hit the ground first. This just adds to my feeling that the NFL and their officials are run very poorly.