Crosby - an 83% kicker.

[mmmdk]

Hasn't his right-hash problem been corrected this year?

You tell me; Crosby is 7-10 on FGs from 30-49 yards, that's 70% - below his career avg. in 30-49 range (74,3%). The more one delves into Crosbys stats...well, let's just say that we're "happy" with our average, at best, kicker.

[Patler]

I just checked several NFL kickers Crosby and his stats resemble ex-Steeler Jeff Reed but even he's slightly better than Crosby. Longwell is on another level than Crosby and the elite kickers through history is something Crosby can only dream of. Crosby might, I said might, reach 1 pro bowl in his career but that's a reach - unless he improves accuracy & clutchness. Big task ahead, I'd say.

OK. Lets look at Longwell's first 4 years in GB:

In 64 games, Longwell was 111/131.
In 57 games, Crosby is 98/127.

But, if you remember those years, Longwell missed all his game winning chances early in his career, and rarely tried anything beyond 45 yards. His longest in his second season was just 45 yards. Sometimes they passed on 45-50 yard opportunities, punting instead. In 64 games Longwell was 5/9 at 50+. Crosby in 57 games is 10/21 at 50+, and has already made more than Longwell even tried in his first four years. Crosby's longest by season are 53, 53, 52, 56. Longwell's longest were 50, 45, 50, 52).

Longwell went nuts in '08 and '09 in Minnesota, going 8/8 at 50+. In the 11 years before that he was 14/28 at 50+. Basically, the same success rate as Crosby, but trying them a whol lot less often. Longwell has not tried a 50+ this season.

Crosby ran out on 12/28/2008 in 22 degree temperatures in Green Bay to try a 69 yarder because his coach asked him to, and he wanted to. Do you think Longwell would have tried that? Longwell used to decline long attempts late in the season because Sherman gave him the choice.

[Patler]

So would you all prefer him to be better at 30-49, but worse under 30?
Under 50 yards, he makes 83%. What's wrong with that?

[Patler]

A factor not to be ignored is that Crosby has also had 5 different regular season holders in less than 4 full seasons. Each year he has started the season with a new holder, and he himself is a young kicker learning the NFL. His holders for the most part were novices at the job themselves. Most off seasons he has worked with several holders competing for the punting job.

To some extent, Crosby has suffered because the Packers have been so unsettled and so inexperienced in the punting game. That has spilled over into instability in the kicking game, with inexperienced, first year punters under roster pressure because they are punting poorly also trying to calmly hold for FGs. It has often been said that Matt Flynn has been the best holder available the last three seasons, but the coaching staff doesn't like to use the backup QB. Heck, holding is what kept Doug Pederson in the NFL for so long.

[mmmdk]

OK. Lets look at Longwell's first 4 years in GB:

In 64 games, Longwell was 111/131.
In 57 games, Crosby is 98/127.

But, if you remember those years, Longwell missed all his game winning chances early in his career, and rarely tried anything beyond 45 yards. His longest in his second season was just 45 yards. Sometimes they passed on 45-50 yard opportunities, punting instead. In 64 games Longwell was 5/9 at 50+. Crosby in 57 games is 10/21 at 50+, and has already made more than Longwell even tried in his first four years. Crosby's longest by season are 53, 53, 52, 56. Longwell's longest were 50, 45, 50, 52).

Longwell went nuts in '08 and '09 in Minnesota, going 8/8 at 50+. In the 11 years before that he was 14/28 at 50+. Basically, the same success rate as Crosby, but trying them a whol lot less often. Longwell has not tried a 50+ this season.

Crosby ran out on 12/28/2008 in 22 degree temperatures in Green Bay to try a 69 yarder because his coach asked him to, and he wanted to. Do you think Longwell would have tried that? Longwell used to decline long attempts late in the season because Sherman gave him the choice.

Longwell > Crosby in first 4 years too and that 69 yarder was a one hit call, I believe. Longwell is not stupid, I guess, for not kicking a 69 yarder. Pretty smart, I'd say. Then again, Stubby & Crosby ain't my cup of tea. I sometimes kringe at his lack of concentration; it seems like he does kick through with his whole body - that's technique too.

With the above said; I think Crosby can get better - but if there's something I do consider myself more knowledgeable about concerning Foosball then it's the kicking game. I'm a "soccer" for that and I've met Danish kicker Morten Andersen several times too. I even tried out as a kicker with Danish Am. Football team called Aarhus Tigers; I had accuracy but not enough leg, especially on kick offs. I ended up playing TE for half a season but I found out I had a "glass" neck, so back to soccer I went. That was in 1994/95.

[pbmax]

To do this justice, we would to split stats by outdoors and distance for the league.

But for one example, Longwell, in his time at Green Bay was 71.7% from 40-49. Crosby is 67.6%. I would like those four percentage points.

Being an 83% kicker from under 50 would put him 14th in the league's overall FG% standings. Dead average when compared to all other teams even when including their 50+ yard kicks. I want that under 50 percentage higher. I could be persuaded with league averages for outdoor versus indoor kicking that show Crosby is above average for outdoor under 50 yard kicks.

But give his success indoors, I think his numbers will still be average versus other outdoor kickers.

I like everything about Crosby except the mid range accuracy.

[mmmdk]

A factor not to be ignored is that Crosby has also had 5 different regular season holders in less than 4 full seasons. Each year he has started the season with a new holder, and he himself is a young kicker learning the NFL. His holders for the most part were novices at the job themselves. Most off seasons he has worked with several holders competing for the punting job.

To some extent, Crosby has suffered because the Packers have been so unsettled and so inexperienced in the punting game. That has spilled over into instability in the kicking game, with inexperienced, first year punters under roster pressure because they are punting poorly also trying to calmly hold for FGs. It has often been said that Matt Flynn has been the best holder available the last three seasons, but the coaching staff doesn't like to use the backup QB. Heck, holding is what kept Doug Pederson in the NFL for so long.

That makes more sense, Patler - rather than gilding his average (at best) accuracy & clutchness. I could mention 15-20 NFL kickers I'd prefer ('cos they're better) or at least say are on par with Crosby.

Raiders say: Commitment to Excellence,

is this a commitment to average??? Just kiddin'!

I've said & documented what I wanted to say on Crosby; let's hope he' getting better. Hurray!!

[pbmax]

A factor not to be ignored is that Crosby has also had 5 different regular season holders in less than 4 full seasons. Each year he has started the season with a new holder, and he himself is a young kicker learning the NFL. His holders for the most part were novices at the job themselves. Most off seasons he has worked with several holders competing for the punting job.

To some extent, Crosby has suffered because the Packers have been so unsettled and so inexperienced in the punting game. That has spilled over into instability in the kicking game, with inexperienced, first year punters under roster pressure because they are punting poorly also trying to calmly hold for FGs. It has often been said that Matt Flynn has been the best holder available the last three seasons, but the coaching staff doesn't like to use the backup QB. Heck, holding is what kept Doug Pederson in the NFL for so long.

This is undoubtedly not helpful. But only time will tell exactly how much this cost him.

[mmmdk]

To do this justice, we would to split stats by outdoors and distance for the league.

But for one example, Longwell, in his time at Green Bay was 71.7% from 40-49. Crosby is 67.6%. I would like those four percentage points.

Being an 83% kicker from under 50 would put him 14th in the league's overall FG% standings. Dead average when compared to all other teams even when including their 50+ yard kicks. I want that under 50 percentage higher. I could be persuaded by numbers for league averages outdoor vs. indoor that show Crosby is above average for outdoor under 50 yard kicks.

But give his success indoors, I think his numbers will still be average even when only compared to outdoor kickers.

I like everything about Crosby except the mid range accuracy.

I agree with 84% of your post - still beats Crosby from under 50 yards....LOL. Couldn't resist!!!

[Patler]

Heck, Longwell used to decline 45-50 yard attempts, too. I remember back on the old JSO site when people tore into him for refusing a game winning attempt at just over 40 late one season, because Sherman gave him the option and he said the wind was too strong. Maybe it was, but the whole idea of leaving it up to Longwell as much as Sherman did was a little unsettling, especially since Longwell was very %-conscious.

Were you a Packer follower in the early Longwell years? I remember year after year the articles about needing to replace him because he had made no game winners and had no range. His leg got stronger, and gradually he tried more long kicks, at least early in the seasons.

Did you see the 69 yarder that Crosby missed? Great accuracy, but just short. Heck of a kick, really. It was a smart attempt, even if a long shot at success. Last play of the 1st half and a free kick following a fair catch on a punt. The Packers did that once years and years ago, too, in the '60s or '70s as I recall.

[Patler]

This is undoubtedly not helpful. But only time will tell exactly how much this cost him.

Agreed, but a kick year so far when he has relatively few attempts makes a difference in his stats.

All in all, the Packers give all phases of STs only lip service, in my opinion. Some teams look for return specialists, accomplished and experienced holders, and experienced punters and kickers when they are available. TT seems willing to roll the dice on all of those positions. Maybe its a good gamble, I don't know.

[3irty1]

A factor not to be ignored is that Crosby has also had 5 different regular season holders in less than 4 full seasons. Each year he has started the season with a new holder, and he himself is a young kicker learning the NFL. His holders for the most part were novices at the job themselves. Most off seasons he has worked with several holders competing for the punting job.

To some extent, Crosby has suffered because the Packers have been so unsettled and so inexperienced in the punting game. That has spilled over into instability in the kicking game, with inexperienced, first year punters under roster pressure because they are punting poorly also trying to calmly hold for FGs. It has often been said that Matt Flynn has been the best holder available the last three seasons, but the coaching staff doesn't like to use the backup QB. Heck, holding is what kept Doug Pederson in the NFL for so long.

I credit Doug Pederson with every field goal that Longwell ever made in Green Bay. He would throw the ball with his wrist through the uprights and if you zoom in with high speed cameras you can see that Longwell's foot never even touched the ball. Longwell was a diva and a crybaby and wanted to play in a dome.

Really though, Crosby's leg strength, competitiveness, and attitude make him every bit the kicker that Longwell was. Not to mention that sweet onside kick against AZ last year.

[Patler]

That makes more sense, Patler - rather than gilding his average (at best) accuracy & clutchness. I could mention 15-20 NFL kickers I'd prefer ('cos they're better) or at least say are on par with Crosby.

Raiders say: Commitment to Excellence,

is this a commitment to average??? Just kiddin'!

I've said & documented what I wanted to say on Crosby; let's hope he' getting better. Hurray!!

How do I make this thing quote more than just one comment???
(The above was mmmdk's reply to my post about multiple holders)

The Raiders have had Janikowski and Lechler together forever. Janikowski has worked mostly with one holder his whole career. That's true of a lot of kickers, like Gould for example, though not all by any means. I have to think that has affected Crosby somewhat, especially since it is early in his career.

I don't think I can find 15-20 I would take over Crosby, because I would also look at kickoffs. Crosby seems to have a good feel for onside kicks, has good strength when allowed to kick away, and is one of the better tackling kickers in the league from what limited exposure I have to them. He does tend to try to hug the sideline too much when they ask him to do that, and kicks too many out of bounds as a result, but overall I think is very solid on kickoffs.

Plus, I love his attitude of never blaming anyone. A refreshing change from Longwell in that regard!

[mmmdk]

Heck, Longwell used to decline 45-50 yard attempts, too. I remember back on the old JSO site when people tore into him for refusing a game winning attempt at just over 40 late one season, because Sherman gave him the option and he said the wind was too strong. Maybe it was, but the whole idea of leaving it up to Longwell as much as Sherman did was a little unsettling, especially since Longwell was very %-conscious.

Were you a Packer follower in the early Longwell years? I remember year after year the articles about needing to replace him because he had made no game winners and had no range. His leg got stronger, and gradually he tried more long kicks, at least early in the seasons.

Did you see the 69 yarder that Crosby missed? Great accuracy, but just short. Heck of a kick, really. It was a smart attempt, even if a long shot at success. Last play of the 1st half and a free kick following a fair catch on a punt. The Packers did that once years and years ago, too, in the '60s or '70s as I recall.

Majik made me a Packer fan during the 1989 season - I wrote the story on JSO too - I thought that was Packer rat legend by now??....hehe, guess not. I agree that Longwell wasn't classy but knowing your own strengths & weaknesses isn't a bad thing. Sometimes going on 4th down is better than kicking.

Fans are weird sometimes...I rate Majik & Rodgers highly in my Packer legend - way over that current Viking QB that once was a QB in GB. I even dig Lynn Dickey dvds towards...you know who.

Packer kickers? I've always been a fan Longwell as a kicker - even higher than Jacke & Crosby. I spoke a few words with Jan Stenerud in 2008 (Falcon game) at the Packer pro shop. He spoke norwegian & I danish, I could tell he was proud of his short Packer tenure & he emphasized the special thing GB had in Packers and the their world wide fans.

Packers are second favorite NFL team in Denmark - Vikings are # 1 and that's why I know actually hate the Vikes.

[mmmdk]

How do I make this thing quote more than just one comment???
(The above was mmmdk's reply to my post about multiple holders)

The Raiders have had Janikowski and Lechler together forever. Janikowski has worked mostly with one holder his whole career. That's true of a lot of kickers, like Gould for example, though not all by any means. I have to think that has affected Crosby somewhat, especially since it is early in his career.

I don't think I can find 15-20 I would take over Crosby, because I would also look at kickoffs. Crosby seems to have a good feel for onside kicks, has good strength when allowed to kick away, and is one of the better tackling kickers in the league from what limited exposure I have to them. He does tend to try to hug the sideline too much when they ask him to do that, and kicks too many out of bounds as a result, but overall I think is very solid on kickoffs.

Plus, I love his attitude of never blaming anyone. A refreshing change from Longwell in that regard!

I agree 100% on attitude and Longwell was a whiner; but a damn fine kicker.

If Packers can't get an elite kicker then working with [plus keeping] Crosby makes a ton of sense - as I've said - the potential is there for Crosby.