RB situation

[mmmdk]

I'd love a McCoy type RB for our offense - we'd be close to unstoppable. Especially with Finley back.

[Tony Oday]

I don't know what you guys expect for the OL... it was built as a pass blocking OL - period.

In the run game, they are expected to be able to hit a moving target in space, i.e. scrap off the DL, engage the LB, and hope there is hole enough behind them for the RB to get thru; that and student body left and student body right, with the infamous backside cutback.

These guys were not drafted to be road graders - they were drafted to be ballarinas... 3rd and 1 is a passing down; seriously, I don't even expect a run on 3rd and 1, and neither does the opposing defense.

Losing Grant pretty much killed any running game we had, and made us entirely one dimensional... as I said, we'll likely make the playoffs, maybe even get a home game; but, as soon as we're on the road against a good team with a good defense... the next discussion is who do we select with the 23rd pick.

Or we blow them out with 6 passing TDs...just saying

[wist43]

Or we blow them out with 6 passing TDs...just saying

There's always that chance... "a punchers chance".

We have the QB... and that is requirement #1; so yeah, as long as you have the QB, we have a shot - but really, it's not a matter of having a bad running game - we have no running game.

It's definitely an up hill battle given the hand we've been dealt.

This has been my fear of TT all along... generally right philosophy, but so married to it, that he won't deviate and go for it, when only a move or two might get us to the promised land. Woodson is aging, Driver is on his way out, Harris is already gone, FA's will leave... if you're close enough - well, then take your shot - TT will never do that I fear. A 3rd rd pick next year is more valuable than a shot at a Lombardi trophy this year.

[sharpe1027]

There's always that chance... "a punchers chance".

We have the QB... and that is requirement #1; so yeah, as long as you have the QB, we have a shot - but really, it's not a matter of having a bad running game - we have no running game.

It's definitely an up hill battle given the hand we've been dealt.

This has been my fear of TT all along... generally right philosophy, but so married to it, that he won't deviate and go for it, when only a move or two might get us to the promised land. Woodson is aging, Driver is on his way out, Harris is already gone, FA's will leave... if you're close enough - well, then take your shot - TT will never do that I fear. A 3rd rd pick next year is more valuable than a shot at a Lombardi trophy this year.

I see your point, but I'd rather be good enough to have a shot every year for the foreseeable future than to have a slightly better chance one or two years. For example, trade away a few picks and they might not have had nearly the depth to survive the injury plague they had this year.

They had injuries at nearly every position and yet we complain about the only one that the backup is really struggling at. Having a revolving door of head coaches is never the way to win.

[Guiness]

I see your point, but I'd rather be good enough to have a shot every year for the foreseeable future than to have a slightly better chance one or two years. For example, trade away a few picks and they might not have had nearly the depth to survive the injury plague they had this year.

They had injuries at nearly every position and yet we complain about the only one that the backup is really struggling at. Having a revolving door of head coaches is never the way to win.

The skeptical rat makes a good point, and that's that we're damn close now - our window isn't closing by any means (lots of young talent) but are we going to get closer than we are?

Problem is though, the mention of a 3rd round pick assumes that Lynch would be an improvement over what we have...and he isn't all that and a box of donuts. I'm not sure who around the league we could've gotten.

[Patler]

I don't know what you guys expect for the OL... it was built as a pass blocking OL - period.

Then why are they such mediocre pass blockers? They rarely give Rodgers a clean pocket to throw from. A less agile QB would be getting killed behind this line.

Pass blocking and run blocking are not mutually exclusive - see: Clifton, Wahle, Flanagan ,Rivera, Tauscher.

I believe the problem is one of two things, or a little of both. TT does not have a good eye for NFL quality O-line ability in college players, and/or Campen's nine years as a high school football coach didn't prepare him adequately to be in charge of coaching an NFL O-line. I vote for the latter. Campen's experience prior to being put in charge of the position group that makes the offense go was ridiculous, 9 years in high school, two years as a Packer "quality control" coach (the lowest rung on the coaching ladder, the guy who gets all the crappy jobs) and one year as assistant O-line coach.

Loyalty is a good thing, but MM is loyal to a fault. MM had the chance to hire a proven NFL ST coach two years ago, instead he promoted from within. I have less problem with that move than promoting Campen, because Slocom had 15 years of college experience in major college programs (including coaching STs) and three years with the Packers. Besides, ST is often a sort of entry level position in NFL coaching ranks anyway. I look at the O-line responsibility a little differently, you can't afford not to be top-notch in coaching the O-line. Good QBs, good RBs and good receivers can all be negated by a poorly performing O-line. The Packers have a poorly performing O-line; and if Rodgers wasn't as good as he is, this offense would be going no where.

I think Campen is a big part of the problem.

[RashanGary]

As far as Thompson and not getting us over the top. . . . Injuries happen. The Colts got hit really hard this year and we're better off then they are. Does that mean Polian is afraid to get them over the top?

We're one of the better teams in the league, even with the most injuries in the league. That speaks volumes about the talent level.

The Packers are not going to lose many (if any) FA's. We have a butt load of money and Ted's shown that he doesn't let talent go very often unless it flat out doesn't fit or is extremely overpriced. The band is going to stay together for some time. And we just lost Taush and Harris and there was no drop off. Actually there was improvement. Woodson has at least another year and with Thompson's history, we won't miss a beat when we lose Clifton.

There is very little reason to think this team is not on the rise, even still. And that's before we get our 13 injured reserve players back. I doubt we'll have two seasons in a row with that type of injury disaster. And if we do, sorry to say, it's a good excuse.


On to the running back situation. . . Almost all of Nances runs came in the 4th quarter of a blow out where everyone expected run. Even when there was no space, he seemed to hit the best crease possible and run with authority. He had a great run against Minnesota where he plowed over EJ Henderson (something a Packer RB has never done before). And he had one or two zone runs in actual game time where he stretched out, made a hard decisive cut and got good yardage. I know we've seen very little of him, but what I have seen I've liked. I'd love to see him this week. I think he's a better runner than Brandon Jackson.

Starks is a complete wildcard. He's extremely athletic, coaches say he's an instinctive runner. He's fast, cuts hard, catches the ball like a WR and he's big. He's a little tall. I'll bet he has a short career unless some team sees his receiving ability and uses him as a 3rd down back or in a Reggie Bush type role. I think he'd do great in that type of role, but we'll see how it all shakes out. In spurts, who knows how good he could be.

I'm not jumping off the wagon yet. I want to see the guys we have fail before I do that.

[Guiness]

Transfer fee is now on sale in time for Christmas.....

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-fee-to-25000/

The writer of that article seems to feel that the price of a transfer was stopping NFL teams from signing UFL players. He pointed to the fact that 15 teams brought in players, but none were signed -

“It is surprising to me that 15 NFL clubs would bring players in for tryouts with full knowledge that a transfer fee was required to sign them and then refuse to pay the fee,” Huyghue said.

Is it not possible that after having a look, none of the NFL teams were interested? This guy's an idiot, and knows nothing about how NFL teams work if he's pointing to that fact as proof that the money being asked was too much. As someone else pointed out, the Packers have probably had a look at every street free agent out there this year.
It could be collusion, I guess, and bringing the players in was a way of applying pressure, but I doubt it. We'll see if there's a fire sale on UFL players in the near future.

[MichiganPackerFan]

I don't know what you guys expect for the OL... it was built as a pass blocking OL - period.

In the run game, they are expected to be able to hit a moving target in space, i.e. scrap off the DL, engage the LB, and hope there is hole enough behind them for the RB to get thru; that and student body left and student body right, with the infamous backside cutback.

These guys were not drafted to be road graders - they were drafted to be ballarinas... 3rd and 1 is a passing down; seriously, I don't even expect a run on 3rd and 1, and neither does the opposing defense.

Losing Grant pretty much killed any running game we had, and made us entirely one dimensional... as I said, we'll likely make the playoffs, maybe even get a home game; but, as soon as we're on the road against a good team with a good defense... the next discussion is who do we select with the 23rd pick.

I largely agree with this. (wow, big change from the olden JSO days: me agreeing with Wist on ANYTHING ; )

Pass protection is certainly the primary focus. However, I do think there are a couple on the line that are more balanced, sitton, wells and I'm not sure about bulaga. Regardless, on 3rd & 1, they should be able to throw Nance/Kuhn/Quinn and hammer out a yard.

[Patler]

The writer of that article seems to feel that the price of a transfer was stopping NFL teams from signing UFL players. He pointed to the fact that 15 teams brought in players, but none were signed -


Is it not possible that after having a look, none of the NFL teams were interested? This guy's an idiot, and knows nothing about how NFL teams work if he's pointing to that fact as proof that the money being asked was too much. As someone else pointed out, the Packers have probably had a look at every street free agent out there this year.
It could be collusion, I guess, and bringing the players in was a way of applying pressure, but I doubt it. We'll see if there's a fire sale on UFL players in the near future.

I don't think the cost for one player was stopping them, but paying it and thereby supporting the UFL's restrictions on player movement was stopping them. I doubt the NFL teams like the way the UFL is handling player rights, so they refuse to go along with it. They bring players in, show interest, then do nothing. What does that accomplish? It gets the UFL players to put pressure on the league to let them move freely to the NFL.

While any one payment isn't a lot, a team hit with a lot of injuries, like the Packers, could have spent a million dollars signing just 7 players from the UFL, and the Packers have had to replace 12 players on their original roster so far.

[Guiness]

I don't think the cost for one player was stopping them, but paying it and thereby supporting the UFL's restrictions on player movement was stopping them. I doubt the NFL teams like the way the UFL is handling player rights, so they refuse to go along with it. They bring players in, show interest, then do nothing. What does that accomplish? It gets the UFL players to put pressure on the league to let them move freely to the NFL.

While any one payment isn't a lot, a team hit with a lot of injuries, like the Packers, could have spent a million dollars signing just 7 players from the UFL, and the Packers have had to replace 12 players on their original roster so far.

IMO that would be a penny-wise, pound foolish decision on the part of an NFL team. NFL Teams spend over $100 million on player salaries alone! The Packers are the worst example of injuries this year, and it would cost them less than 1% of their salary to help fix that problem? Have at it!

The NFL could well be being a bunch of bullies, not willing to play by the UFL's rules. The thing is, the NFL has suffered in the past from not having a minor league to draw players from - they'd be idiots (well, they are NFL owners...) to not support this one. Right now, there's a pool of game ready players available, courtesy of the UFL. Something they wouldn't otherwise have.

I would be wrong, but don't MLB teams buy out minor league contracts before calling a player up?

[pbmax]

While the Offensive Line is not a great run blocking unit, its the same unit that popped Grant for 1200 yards for 3 years in a row (Bulaga over Tauscher is an upgrade in the running game). And that is with Colledge having his worst year last year.

The difference between last year and this year is the back.

[swede]

While the Offensive Line is not a great run blocking unit, its the same unit that popped Grant for 1200 yards for 3 years in a row (Bulaga over Tauscher is an upgrade in the running game). And that is with Colledge having his worst year last year.

The difference between last year and this year is the back.

Dang! That seems hard to argue against.

My eyes tell me that the holes aren't there. What none of us can know for sure is where the holes were designed to be.

What did Grant have that other guys don't have?

Patience? Vision? Speed? Strength? A shrine with dried chicken blood hidden in a locker?

[Cheesehead Craig]

Dang! That seems hard to argue against.

My eyes tell me that the holes aren't there. What none of us can know for sure is where the holes were designed to be.

What did Grant have that other guys don't have?

Patience? Vision? Speed? Strength? A shrine with dried chicken blood hidden in a locker?

He has a shrine to Jobu in his locker. He offers him rum and cigar to help him avoid the linemen.

[Tony Oday]

I say F you Jobu I do this myself!