McCarthy = Sherman?

[rbaloha1]

Additions above in Bold

What about the failure to help Bulaga against Wake in the Dolphins game which lead to sacks and rushed passes?

[mmmdk]

....I have a feeling that a lot of Packer fans would even support Mike IV...that's Mike Tice!

[Fritz]

Supporting a coach does not make someone an "apologist." I support MM, though I do not think he's a perfect coach. He has some weak spots, like the vast majority of people do in their jobs. McCarthy seems to have a tough time consistently making good hires - he hits on some (Robinson, McAdoo, keeping Bennett) and misses on others (K Schottenheimer, maybe Campen, Mike Stock). I don't know much about playcalling, but sometimes his calls disturb me. Still - how do I, or anyone, know that a different play call would've worked better?

On the other hand, he has developed some talent, and his overall record as nearly identical to Sean Payton's. He's also coached an injury-decimated team to a 7-4 record so far this year.

I think he's a good coach who is improving. He seems less rigid than Sherman. Hell, there were threads in this forum after the rash of early-season injuries talking about next year's draft, because it was obvious the Packers were going nowhere this year.

But here they are, 7-4. 13 players on injured reserve - I'm thinking that's probably the second-highest total in the NFL, maybe behind Indy.

One more point - if the Packers inexplicably fired MM right now, as some people here seem to desire, I'd bet my house that the guy would have at least two head coaching offers for next fall (if there is a season next fall). Shermy got none.

[mmmdk]

Supporting a coach does not make someone an "apologist." I support MM, though I do not think he's a perfect coach. He has some weak spots, like the vast majority of people do in their jobs. McCarthy seems to have a tough time consistently making good hires - he hits on some (Robinson, McAdoo, keeping Bennett) and misses on others (K Schottenheimer, maybe Campen, Mike Stock). I don't know much about playcalling, but sometimes his calls disturb me. Still - how do I, or anyone, know that a different play call would've worked better?

On the other hand, he has developed some talent, and his overall record as nearly identical to Sean Payton's. He's also coached an injury-decimated team to a 7-4 record so far this year.

I think he's a good coach who is improving. He seems less rigid than Sherman. Hell, there were threads in this forum after the rash of early-season injuries talking about next year's draft, because it was obvious the Packers were going nowhere this year.

But here they are, 7-4. 13 players on injured reserve - I'm thinking that's probably the second-highest total in the NFL, maybe behind Indy.

One more point - if the Packers inexplicably fired MM right now, as some people here seem to desire, I'd bet my house that the guy would have at least two head coaching offers for next fall (if there is a season next fall). Shermy got none.

I'm cool with it! When this season is done...it could be his best head coaching year and not the "lady fortuna" 2007 season. I'm getting soft.

[sharpe1027]

All the games lost by the packers this season which is currently preventing the packers from reaching the playoffs. Big ineptness is keeping Slocum as the special teams coach. Another ineptness which is in the process of being corrected is over preaching toughness resulting in too many penalties. Failure to properly challenge. Shermanesque excuses (kudos for not using injuries) for losses. Losing composure in critical situations.

Bottom Line: Lets wait until the season is over. Some tough remaining games -- unfortunately may have to rely on other teams to reach playoffs.

Just like Bates extended Sherman, Capers is extending MM. There I go again! Mahalo.

Capers is a more important part of MM's staff than Slocum, so I'd say MM comes out ahead on that point.

[Smidgeon]

What about the failure to help Bulaga against Wake in the Dolphins game which lead to sacks and rushed passes?

Or how a blatant defensive holding against Wake on a sack was ignored. You know, the time where he stumbled while holding Bulaga's pads, pulled Bulaga down by the pads causing him to lose balance, then sprung up and past Bulaga for a sack...

[3irty1]

One more point - if the Packers inexplicably fired MM right now, as some people here seem to desire, I'd bet my house that the guy would have at least two head coaching offers for next fall (if there is a season next fall). Shermy got none.

This is a great point. Who can honestly say that with all the coaching interviews there are sure to be this off season that McCarthy wouldn't be the top hire?

[MichiganPackerFan]

...
But here they are, 7-4. 13 players on injured reserve - I'm thinking that's probably the second-highest total in the NFL, maybe behind Indy.

Packers 13
Colts 9

http://jsonline.sportsdirectinc.com/football/nfl-injuries.aspx?page=/data/nfl/injury/injuries.html

[pbmax]

Art Shell wasn't a bad head coach the first time around, with a record of 54-38 from 1989 - 1994. Made the AFC Championship game once and was Coach of the Year. He never should have come back for a second go-around with Al Davis.

That is one of the strangest sagas of any coach I remember. Shell was thought of as the Raiders savior early in his tenure, but by the end it seemed the only person who thought he was qualified to be the Raiders coach was Davis, right until he was fired.

I never caught the coverage or stories about why he fell from grace beside the deteriorating record (that might have been enough, but the talk about Shell was that he was incompetent). When he was rehired, he brought in a guy to be his Offensive Coordinator who had been running a bed and breakfast (or dude ranch) since he left the Raiders with Shell the first time. The coverage of Shell at this point mentioned that this guy, Tom Walsh, was out of his league by the end of their first run and now was simply unqualified. But it was never clear to me if Shell simply had a friend he was too loyal to or if he had a problem attracting assistant coaches.

[sheepshead]

This is a great point. Who can honestly say that with all the coaching interviews there are sure to be this off season that McCarthy wouldn't be the top hire?

Who is seriously suggesting firing McCarthy? He's not getting fired for Gods sake. Criticism isnt an all or nothing deal. When you have your annual review and you dont score well in some area do you think you're gonna get fired. Put down the redbulls and lighten up fellas.

[pbmax]

Excellent post 3irty1. But when the crippled defense holds the Falcons to twenty points and we don't win I look at Stubby and I wonder if he's the guy.

It is kind of funny. When we win he's a smart, tough, true football guy from blue collar roots in the streets of Pittsburgh. When we lose he's a stubby shlubbus without enough brains to operate a red beanbag.

And that is why, after a championship, you become a genius. Because your reputation does not vacillate as much after that notch in your belt. Its like criticism repellent.

In both cases, people are overreacting, but in an age of constant media attention and nutty message boards, the only thing that can contain the panic is a championship. Unless you are Barry Switzer or Brian Billick.

[Patler]

That is one of the strangest sagas of any coach I remember. Shell was thought of as the Raiders savior early in his tenure, but by the end it seemed the only person who thought he was qualified to be the Raiders coach was Davis, right until he was fired.

I never caught the coverage or stories about why he fell from grace beside the deteriorating record (that might have been enough, but the talk about Shell was that he was incompetent). When he was rehired, he brought in a guy to be his Offensive Coordinator who had been running a bed and breakfast (or dude ranch) since he left the Raiders with Shell the first time. The coverage of Shell at this point mentioned that this guy, Tom Walsh, was out of his league by the end of their first run and now was simply unqualified. But it was never clear to me if Shell simply had a friend he was too loyal to or if he had a problem attracting assistant coaches.

Ya, I remember that. I thought at the time he was fired the first time that no one would be successful coaching the Raiders as long as Davis insisted on being a quasi-head coach himself. Players didn't really know who was in charge on the field and in the locker room on a day-to-day basis. I think some potential coaches felt the same way. Not a place they wanted to move to.

[pbmax]

Ya, I remember that. I thought at the time he was fired the first time that no one would be successful coaching the Raiders as long as Davis insisted on being a quasi-head coach himself. Players didn't really know who was in charge on the field and in the locker room on a day-to-day basis. I think some potential coaches felt the same way. Not a place they wanted to move to.

Do you remember that Homlgren advised Chucky (Grunden) not to take the Raiders job when he interviewed for it? And this was a warning from his former coach. Grunden was the Eagles OC at the time under Rhodes.

[Fritz]

PB, I remember reading too that Shell had gone soft - he was trying so hard to be a player's coach that he lost the team. I vaguely remember a story of a player sitting on his helmet during practice, guys taking themselves out of practice sessions, that sort of thing.

If I recall correctly, he might've then tried to toughen up suddenly - the classic mistake, which I think Chilly made - and that was the end for him.

[Fritz]

Who is seriously suggesting firing McCarthy? He's not getting fired for Gods sake. Criticism isnt an all or nothing deal. When you have your annual review and you dont score well in some area do you think you're gonna get fired. Put down the redbulls and lighten up fellas.

RBAloha is. Here's his quote from page one: "Should the Packers fail to make the playoffs MM should be terminated. Keep the defensive staff."