Interesting Favre article.

[Little Whiskey]

great post vince.

I've been thinking that the year the vikings are having might be the best thing for favre and his reputation with packer fans. as bad as a year as he is having those GP fans that turned against him might start feeling a bit bad for him. he might be welcomed back sooner than if the vikes would have won the superbowl. if he happens to get hurt this year, i would bet the simpathy factor would increase.

[swede]

Kellen Winslow, Jr. and CM III...

Michael Vick Act 1 and Michaels Vick Act 2...

Donald Driver and the Panthers receiver that went to jail for murder...

The stories write themselves differently among the wealthy, the blue collar and the poor, with the human spirit overcoming or being overwhelmed by forces that crush one person and create success in another.

[RashanGary]

pb, I'll bet the number of NFL superstars who came from middle to lower class far outnumbers the number that came from wealth. 8:1 or better. I really don't think Favre not coming from wealth is any excuse.

In my opinion, you seem to subtly idolize his career while also subtly downplaying his negative actions. It seems to me you want to remember him a certain way and will despite anything that might show otherwise.

Favre not coming from wealth is not the reason he told these little white lies, dabbled in this normal man alochol abuse, sampled these little white pills and cheated on his little naive wife. And this is just the things that are documented in public. When are the excuses going to stop? The things he's done are worse than normal. Worse than the average wealthy, worse than the average middle class and worse than teh average poverty. He's been a creep and he's been extremely selfish. This isn't about class and ignorance. The things he did are common sense.

[ND72]

We're starting to dabble into the area I've always been frustrated with some fans. Thinking of Brett Favre, I always loved him....as a player. His ups and downs and ins and outs always attracted me as a fan. Truthfully at times as a teenager Brett Favre was a drug to me, just loved everything about him. BUT...where do we put the line between who he is as a professional athlete, and who he is at home? I know the world we live in now is media driven, and as much as I truly do love seeing the downfall of not only the Minnesota Vikings, but also the downfall of Brett Favre, all that should probably matter is who he is on the field for what he makes his millions of dollars.

It's hard in todays living NOT to be focused on the person, instead of just the athlete...but that's the fine line for the athletes. None of them want the media attention (per say), but they all get it, yet are upset when they get busted for things the normal person wouldn't get the attention of. I think I heard Donald Driver say in an interview one time that if you want the millions of dollars, you have to learn how to behave appropriately, and at times make the decision to stay home instead of going to a club.

Sadly the public version of Brett Favre has come crashing down this year. I still remember the first packer game I watched with my college roommate & best friend...he said to me, in 1999, just wait...Brett Favre will someday do something to break our hearts...and technically he did. I do feel badly about the way things have gone, but part of me also really enjoys it. I do believe in Karma...and just like Brett Favre, Lebron James will get his some day ..haha.

And I would like to publically say NO, I do not have a man crush on Brett Favre, but my wife and I are naming our first child, a girl, Breleigh...and NO, it wasn't because of Brett Favre either. (I've been taking a lot of heat)

[Scott Campbell]

But there are no websites who will buy my texted photos if I decide to work in self portrait.

What's your asking price?

[Scott Campbell]

The whole Favre clan, including Brett, have been humbled by the last few years - this year in particular. Brett won't admit it directly, and his ego may not even be ready to admit it to himself, but I think his actions show that deep down, he knows he's screwed up royally. Even those closest to him can see it clearly now.

He's a masterful media and public manipulator, and I think he'll come back to the Packer family and will be accepted by the Packers and the overwhelming majority of fans. It's in everyone's best interests for that to happen because that's how the public remembers him most fondly.

I think Ted Thompson will embrace him and play a key role in the process of Packer fans' forgiveness for all that Favre has done in his attempts to hurt the franchise. Regardless of whether Favre manipulated his way out of town and blamed Thompson or Thompson manipulated Favre into retirement and out of town, it's blatantly clear that Thompson has come out smelling like a rose with Aaron Rodgers leading a young winning team into the future. Through ubelievable criticism and ridicule, Thompson stood tall, held to his convictions and emerged victorious in what became the most heated public battle with the most beloved football player of all time. Through it all, Ted's allegiance has remained with the Packers and their fans, and he knows it's in the Packers' best interests to welcome Favre back when he retires. When Thompson moves on from the past, it will be the signal that everyone else should too, and it will come very soon after Brett retires.

Favre has already showed signs of reconnecting with the Packers through the media. After the beatdown the Packers gave the Vikes in Minneapolis, Favre complimented McCarthy on what a great coach his is and reportedly said to Nick Collins after the game, "Keep it going. You guys can go all the way." Favre knows from experience that very little escapes the media in those situations.

It's definitely in the financial best interests of the Packers to reconnect with Favre's glory years because there's a lot of affinity among Packer fans for those years - even among those like me who think Favre has acted despicably toward the Packers' franchise since '08. Favre's significant imperfections have once again reared their ugly head, and they're all part of what has made him such an icon through the years.

Really good post Vince. You may have changed my mind. I thought nothing could change my mind about Bert, but if Ted forgave the scumbag I probably would too. But it would have to be more than just lip service on Ted's part.

[ND72]

even my wife wouldn't buy my texts...

[Fritz]

My guess is he'll say the right things, the Packers will say all the right things, and eventually he will be seen primarily as the second best quarterback in franchise history who loved to play the game.

Me, I will not feel that way. It's been tarnished for me. I won't be vocal and critical, but I won't feel terribly warm and fuzzy.

[Joemailman]

The whole Favre clan, including Brett, have been humbled by the last few years - this year in particular. Brett won't admit it directly, and his ego may not even be ready to admit it to himself, but I think his actions show that deep down, he knows he's screwed up royally. Even those closest to him can see it clearly now.

He's a masterful media and public manipulator, and I think he'll come back to the Packer family and will be accepted by the Packers and the overwhelming majority of fans. It's in everyone's best interests for that to happen because that's how the public remembers him most fondly.

I agree that there will be reconciliation between Favre and a large portion of the Packer fan base. I wonder about the younger generation of Packer fans though. A 15 year old Packer fan doesn't remember the Super Bowl in New Orleans. His/her memories of Favre are not ours. Many young fans will remember crucial interceptions in playoff losses, annual indecision about whether to play another year, and finally, Jenn Sterger. As years go by and an ever larger percentage of Packer fans are those who did not witness Favre's glory years, I wonder what the reaction to Favre will be.

[Patler]

I agree that there will be reconciliation between Favre and a large portion of the Packer fan base. I wonder about the younger generation of Packer fans though. A 15 year old Packer fan doesn't remember the Super Bowl in New Orleans. His/her memories of Favre are not ours. Many young fans will remember crucial interceptions in playoff losses, annual indecision about whether to play another year, and finally, Jenn Sterger. As years go by and an ever larger percentage of Packer fans are those who did not witness Favre's glory years, I wonder what the reaction to Favre will be.

That is exactly a point I tried to argue 4 or 5 years ago, when Favre was still a Packer. He will have the biggest and longest impact with those who "grew up" with him as the Packer QB. Those with few Packer memories before Favre, but who witnessed most all of his career.

For old guys like me, Favre is not any more special than many of the Packer greats from the '60s, and as far as a QB is concerned, my memories of Bart Starr never screwing up a game and always coming through in the clutch during playoffs has never been approached by Favre. Favre never instilled the confidence in me that Bart Starr did.

I argued vehemently, (and was blasted for it), that another great Packer QB would come along, younger fans would be drawn to him, and would wonder what was so special about Favre, who after all won just a single Championship. Little did I know that that QB might follow immediately after Favre. If Rodgers ultimately wins a single Super Bowl, fans will differ on who is better. If Rodgers wins a second, younger fans will "know" that Rodgers is. I will probably still be in the Bart Starr camp until Rodgers gets at least his third SB win, maybe not until his 4th.

But that is the best thing about sports, no matter how great a player is, there will always come another who is worthy of drawing comparisons. That is what keeps our interest.

[pbmax]

pb, I'll bet the number of NFL superstars who came from middle to lower class far outnumbers the number that came from wealth. 8:1 or better. I really don't think Favre not coming from wealth is any excuse.

In my opinion, you seem to subtly idolize his career while also subtly downplaying his negative actions. It seems to me you want to remember him a certain way and will despite anything that might show otherwise.

Favre not coming from wealth is not the reason he told these little white lies, dabbled in this normal man alochol abuse, sampled these little white pills and cheated on his little naive wife. And this is just the things that are documented in public. When are the excuses going to stop? The things he's done are worse than normal. Worse than the average wealthy, worse than the average middle class and worse than teh average poverty. He's been a creep and he's been extremely selfish. This isn't about class and ignorance. The things he did are common sense.

Justin, thank you for your opinion. But I am not excusing Favre for any of his behavior. Nor am I claiming his family background explains any of his behavior. And I long have been a proponent of looking at athletes realistically, not as heroes or people who have extraordinary abilities outside their chosen profession. And Favre is not the first athlete who was elevated to this status.

But the facts of his family tell me two things: they argue against your contention that there is some evidence of hereditary instability common to poverty (his family were not poor and both parents held jobs that carried significant public responsibility).

And it tells me that no one on his family has had this level of success. So no one can advise him from a position of experience. This is not about his drinking, drug use or womanizing. It is about how he has taken perhaps the most positive public image of any current NFL player and turned his image completely around. It is also about avoiding preparing for football while still wishing to play on Sunday. His family have all benefited from his career and are beholden to him in some way. Even his father was a fan even of he could not admit it to his son's face. I take this family information to mean that the "if Irv was still around" is just wishful thinking. His father did not have difficult conversations with his son unless it was to criticize him. And it is not worth noting that the son did not listen to the criticism.

[pbmax]

We're starting to dabble into the area I've always been frustrated with some fans. Thinking of Brett Favre, I always loved him....as a player. His ups and downs and ins and outs always attracted me as a fan. Truthfully at times as a teenager Brett Favre was a drug to me, just loved everything about him. BUT...where do we put the line between who he is as a professional athlete, and who he is at home? I know the world we live in now is media driven, and as much as I truly do love seeing the downfall of not only the Minnesota Vikings, but also the downfall of Brett Favre, all that should probably matter is who he is on the field for what he makes his millions of dollars.

Mostly I agree with you ND. But athletes often take great pains (like politicians) to make their families part of the coverage of their athletic exploits.

And the media help too, of course. But where once the family background was used to write glowing reports of athletic exploits and how it all reflected well on America's character, the genie was let out of the bottle and for better and worse, the public was given a glimpse that athletes have as many flaws and blemishes as their friends and relatives. While it doesn't make the coverage any more palatable, its not a bad lesson overall.

[RashanGary]

There is a level of success that simply overwhelms the individual. He may have no true guide and if you add to that pretty typical faults, it would be enough to wreck most men. Media love to tell you how the player's humble roots gave him the unique fundamentals that led to his eventual success. If that line of thinking were true, all men of humble backgrounds would be saints. He has a level of success that only other athletes and families of the wealthy can identify with.

His children may be better able to navigate the minefields, just by having grown up around it, if the privileges aren't too overwhelming.

What does this have to do with Favre's actions? Why do so many superstars not flame out with fame yet come from similar background? What pretty typical faults ended up wrecking Favre? Would you expect Aaron to follow a similar fate as he becomes truly rich and famous?

[pbmax]

What does this have to do with Favre's actions? Why do so many superstars not flame out with fame yet come from similar background? What pretty typical faults ended up wrecking Favre? Would you expect Aaron to follow a similar fate as he becomes truly rich and famous?

The original point about success had nothing to do with his actions, not directly anyway. That was never my point with this conjecture. This argument is in disagreement with the sentiment that Brett would have behaved differently in 2008 if his Father were still alive. His success overwhelmed the family hierarchy to a degree. He was the person with the power and did not need to heed anyone's advice, even if he choose to listen to it while he waffled. He was a person who could have used advice, but its not clear there was anyone in a position to deliver it to him. Remember him going to Holmgren after one of the Seattle games?

As for your point about how Superstars come from lower to middle class backgrounds (I think you pointed to an 8:1 ratio of limited wealth:more substantial wealth), it is probably because the NFL is made up of players from those economic and social backgrounds in the exact same ratio among the rank and file. Children of accomplished or wealthy families have additional choices. They can play soccer, hockey, tennis, golf, swimming, lacrosse or water polo because regardless of whether those sports are supported by the schools or municipalities. Those families can afford to get the player instruction and travel to games and tournaments. And given a highly talented athlete, is it not a smarter decision to play basketball, baseball or track? If you survive and are good enough, those careers (including soccer, tennis and golf) are longer and offer better salaries and can be more lucrative.

That is not to say there are no children of accomplishment in the NFL (Matt Birk, Myron Rolle, Pat McInally), but for each of those, there are multiples of players from humbler backgrounds. And the ratio is going to get worse if the NFL cannot get its hands fully around the issue of concussions and other ailments that lead to shortened lifespans for NFL alumni. Think about mothers not wanting their children to play football right now. If research finds a link between line play, concussions and eventual brain damage, then the scales will be tipped even further.

As for why some athletes survive and others don't, we have to remember one thing; we don't know everything. Drew Brees might have concubines housed above a restaurant in New Orleans, but word has yet to leak. Manning might be dating Jeff Saturday. We just don't know.

Rodgers has little history like Favre's drinking or car crash. Favre demonstrated the ability to overcome these obstacles and succeed. Indeed, if it can be believed he has actually stopped drinking, that is a hell of an accomplishment for anyone. Rodgers would seem to have fewer demons and if he can overcome those, he stands to succeed. But the problem is we do not know much of anything about him yet. Outside of pictures of the singers and models he dates, he is pretty much a blank slate. Will he succeed? All signs point to yes, but we know so little we cannot be sure.