4th and 1

[Patler]

If the play works MM is a genius. The reason we lost the game is turnovers. We turned the ball over 3 times when we were in a position to score. You can't do that against any team in this league and expect to win. End of story.

Not sure if he looks like a genius, or just fortunate.

[mmmdk]

If the play works MM is a genius. The reason we lost the game is turnovers. We turned the ball over 3 times when we were in a position to score. You can't do that against any team in this league and expect to win. End of story.

Sure, I see your point, but stop with the "genius" tag on McCarthy - who'd crown him that?

[Pugger]

Not sure if he looks like a genius, or just fortunate.

I was being slightly sarcastic. That call on 4th and 1 wasn't his best by any stretch but the biggest reason we lost in my mind is turnovers over MM's playcalling.

[pbmax]

The Packers, especially on that turf, could not control the line of scrimmage and could not run. See previous runs in that drive on 2nd and short and 3rd and short. A 3rd string LG and a LT and RT who were struggling.

So that means pass and the Lions know it. The Lions are either going to blitz the house or play short coverage. They played coverage and left the intermediate and deep wide open. You can keep banging your head against the strength of the defense and throw into multiple defenders with the backup quarterback or you can give him a wide open wide receiver. The play worked as designed, the player didn't.

Is it wise to trust that QB? There was no other choice, no matter what patterns you call. He needed to make a throw. Either threaded through coverage or deep.

The problem with McCarthy's game planning is that it is dependent on the identified weakness of the defense. When the defense either covers up that weakness (Atlanta) or your players cannot execute the necessary plays (Lions), there is no backup plan this year. Formerly, Grant was often the backup plan. Finley would have been that backup plan this year.

You can win with that one dimensional offense, but not with a poorly performing O line and the backup QB. So much for being a turf team.

The game was lost long before that play. And it was lost for the same reasons that meant that play call might have been the best idea.

[retailguy]

I was being slightly sarcastic. That call on 4th and 1 wasn't his best by any stretch but the biggest reason we lost in my mind is turnovers over MM's playcalling.

I have a different take on this. When your players aren't executing well on the field, and you can't run the ball because your OL can't play well, it is up to YOU as the playcaller to put your team in a position where they are successful by calling plays that they can execute. McCarthy's playcalling did not do that. I see this loss as completely on him, as I do any member of the OL.

[Pugger]

If your O line is stinking out the joint what can a playcaller do? I will put the loss on MM for keeping a crappy O line coach who can't get these gentlemen to run block worth a damn but not on MM's playcalling.

[Patler]

The Packers, especially on that turf, could not control the line of scrimmage and could not run. See previous runs in that drive on 2nd and short and 3rd and short. A 3rd string LG and a LT and RT who were struggling.

So that means pass and the Lions know it. The Lions are either going to blitz the house or play short coverage. They played coverage and left the intermediate and deep wide open. You can keep banging your head against the strength of the defense and throw into multiple defenders with the backup quarterback or you can give him a wide open wide receiver. The play worked as designed, the player didn't.

Is it wise to trust that QB? There was no other choice, no matter what patterns you call. He needed to make a throw. Either threaded through coverage or deep.

The problem with McCarthy's game planning is that it is dependent on the identified weakness of the defense. When the defense either covers up that weakness (Atlanta) or your players cannot execute the necessary plays (Lions), there is no backup plan this year. Formerly, Grant was often the backup plan. Finley would have been that backup plan this year.

You can win with that one dimensional offense, but not with a poorly performing O line and the backup QB. So much for being a turf team.

The game was lost long before that play. And it was lost for the same reasons that meant that play call might have been the best idea.

I agree that the game was lost long before the final play on offense. However, in their vast game plan for this game, I can't believe that the best call for the single most critical play in the game, when they needed just a single yard in a last ditch effort, was a play that required their back-up QB to complete a pass that would have to travel about 40 yards in the air.

[pbmax]

I agree that the game was lost long before the final play on offense. However, in their vast game plan for this game, I can't believe that the best call for the single most critical play in the game, when they needed just a single yard in a last ditch effort, was a play that required their back-up QB to complete a pass that would have to travel about 40 yards in the air.

You would think so, but the overwhelming evidence so far this season is that they do not. At lease not one he is willing to call. Unlike last year after the Tampa Bay game, I have not yet had a sense that M3 has figured out what his players can do well.

[Patler]

You would think so, but the overwhelming evidence so far this season is that they do not. At lease not one he is willing to call. Unlike last year after the Tampa Bay game, I have not yet had a sense that M3 has figured out what his players can do well.

Geeze, I just posted almost the identical thing in another thread at the same time! Great minds, PB...great minds!

[mmmdk]

Geeze, I just posted almost the identical thing in another thread at the same time! Great minds, PB...great minds!

You both hit the nail !

[retailguy]

If your O line is stinking out the joint what can a playcaller do? I will put the loss on MM for keeping a crappy O line coach who can't get these gentlemen to run block worth a damn but not on MM's playcalling.

Plenty of plays that are designed for "quick outs", before any rusher could get to the QB. screens are just one example. But we don't do those anymore. We just dare them to get there. And they do.

[3irty1]

Conventional wisdom would imply that a 40 yard pass on 4th and 1 with what could be your season on the line is a poor play call and that's exactly why it should have worked. I have a much bigger issue, conceptually, with a few of the other play calls.

[mmmdk]

Conventional wisdom would imply that a 40 yard pass on 4th and 1 with what could be your season on the line is a poor play call and that's exactly why it should have worked. I have a much bigger issue, conceptually, with a few of the other play calls.

I hated the call 'cos it was Flynn at the helm but you're making sense nonetheless.
I think Payton or the Tuna would dared the same thing but the Packers had Mr. Not-Even-Mr-August at QB and that makes it a big no-no call.

[3irty1]

With Tom Brady back there, teams might not move both safeties all the way up making it easier to convert for the single yard. MM obviously had faith in Flynn--possibly more evidence that MM is loyal to a fault. That throw by Flynn was kind of close but not that close. Who else thinks we'll be drafting a QB this offseason?

[pbmax]

Plenty of plays that are designed for "quick outs", before any rusher could get to the QB. screens are just one example. But we don't do those anymore. We just dare them to get there. And they do.

They ran several screens. But it can't be the only option.