Postulated: The Packers 8-6 Record Is A Good Achivement This Season

[Scott Campbell]

At 8-6 the grade is incomplete.

[vince]

I agree. We lost 3 of the first six games and that was before we were really hammered by injuries. The injuries now are a bit of an excuse for why I don't think we're a real SB competitor, but not early in teh season.


ST's are still bad

And it took us 6 games this year instead of 8 last year to simplify the offense and really play well. Hopefully next year it takes him less than 4 games. Capers always talks about keeping it simple. MM talks about being multifaceted, flexible and diverse. . . . I like Capers simple approach better because when MM is forced to go simple his offenses dominate too.

Significant Injuries Week 1 or Before

Ryan Grant – played less than ½ of 1 game before serious ankle injury ended his season

Justin Harrell – played 2 plays of 1 game before ACL tear ended his season

Ryan Pickett – injured his hamstring in week 1, which has bothered him all year.

Chad Clifton - suffered from knee aggravation and swelling since before week 1

Josh Bell – played 0 games before ACL tear ended his season

Cullen Jenkins – has played with a calf strain all season and broke his hand in the first week of the season.

Clay Matthews – played with a hamstring injury since before the first game

Mike Neal – had a side strain before week 1 and has barely played this year before his season ended with a shoulder injury

Brady Poppinga has had a strained knee since before week 1, which eventually gave out and ended his season

Charles Woodson has been playing with a toe injury since before week 1

Atari Bigby – high ankle sprain kept him out until week 10

Al Harris – never recovered from multiple ligament injuries to the knee

James Starks – hamstring injury kept him out until week 10

Brad Jones – suffered from shoulder injury before week 1 and played with a harness but never did really get on track before his season ended

Significant Injuries Beginning after 3rd game

Nick Barnett – played 3 games before hurting his wrist ending his season

Morgan Burnett – played 3 games before knee injury ended his season

Brandon Chillar – suffered his shoulder injury in week 3 and was out or ineffective until he ended his season on IR

Mark Tauscher – suffered shoulder injury from which he never recovered before his season was ended.

Significant Injuries Beginning After 4th Game

Jermichael Finley’s injury came in week 5

Donald Driver – strained his quad

Derrick Martin – suffered season ending knee injury in week 5

Aaron Rodgers – suffered a concussion

Clay Matthews - reaggravated his hammie

Significant Injuries After Week 6

Rodgers – 2nd concussion
Matthews - shin problem

I probably missed a few in there and not just the bumps and bruises... Donald Lee was hurt, Quarless has been hurt, Corey Hall missed some games, Colledge with a knee injury, Collins with a knee and ribs, Peprah, Shields missed at least a game to injury, Bigby again, Zombo, ... In any event, the injuries definitely started early and continued to build-up early and often.

Despite that, the Packers started 3-1 this season before the injuries in Week 5 to Finley, Matthews and Rodgers against the Redskins. This was when fans everwhere predicted a coming apocolypse, which after the Dolphins loss, never came.

Credit the non-falloff to what you will (before Rodgers' 2nd concussion), but it certainly wasn't due to McCarthy's ineptitude.

[Bossman641]

Great post Vince.

Another point of interest. For as well as the defense has played, they haven't forced turnovers at anywhere near the level they did last year. So far, the defense has 24 takeaways. Last year, they ended the regular season with 40 takeaways.

As a result of fewer takeaways and bad ST play (due to Slocum or injuries), the offense is consistently asked to drive a long field. Missing your starting RB and game-breaking TE, that is a lot to ask.

[bobblehead]

We're entering the "Great effort" era of Green Bay Packers history; lots of boring chapters of how injuries got the better of us and how McCarthy came so close but no cigar. Isn't that ironic?

Thank goodness for Packers thick history 'cos what's being inked now ain't worth reading.

Were you a fan before 1993? Do you really know anything about the "thick history" after Lombardi?

[bobblehead]

I agree. We lost 3 of the first six games and that was before we were really hammered by injuries. The injuries now are a bit of an excuse for why I don't think we're a real SB competitor, but not early in teh season.


ST's are still bad

And it took us 6 games this year instead of 8 last year to simplify the offense and really play well. Hopefully next year it takes him less than 4 games. Capers always talks about keeping it simple. MM talks about being multifaceted, flexible and diverse. . . . I like Capers simple approach better because when MM is forced to go simple his offenses dominate too.

Vince already debunked this, but I'll say this. Losing finley was HUGE and changed the way we play. Also I believe Rodgers had a concussion early in that Washington game and wasn't right in the miami game. Despite this we played both games to the bitter end. Oh, and have I mentioned missed clutch FG's?

[retailguy]

Significant Injuries Week 1 or Before

Ryan Grant – played less than ½ of 1 game before serious ankle injury ended his season

Justin Harrell – played 2 plays of 1 game before ACL tear ended his season

Ryan Pickett – injured his hamstring in week 1, which has bothered him all year.

Chad Clifton - suffered from knee aggravation and swelling since before week 1

Josh Bell – played 0 games before ACL tear ended his season

Cullen Jenkins – has played with a calf strain all season and broke his hand in the first week of the season.

Clay Matthews – played with a hamstring injury since before the first game

Mike Neal – had a side strain before week 1 and has barely played this year before his season ended with a shoulder injury

Brady Poppinga has had a strained knee since before week 1, which eventually gave out and ended his season

Charles Woodson has been playing with a toe injury since before week 1

Atari Bigby – high ankle sprain kept him out until week 10

Al Harris – never recovered from multiple ligament injuries to the knee

James Starks – hamstring injury kept him out until week 10

Brad Jones – suffered from shoulder injury before week 1 and played with a harness but never did really get on track before his season ended

Significant Injuries Beginning after 3rd game

Nick Barnett – played 3 games before hurting his wrist ending his season

Morgan Burnett – played 3 games before knee injury ended his season

Brandon Chillar – suffered his shoulder injury in week 3 and was out or ineffective until he ended his season on IR

Mark Tauscher – suffered shoulder injury from which he never recovered before his season was ended.

Significant Injuries Beginning After 4th Game

Jermichael Finley’s injury came in week 5

Donald Driver – strained his quad

Derrick Martin – suffered season ending knee injury in week 5

Aaron Rodgers – suffered a concussion

Clay Matthews - reaggravated his hammie

Significant Injuries After Week 6

Rodgers – 2nd concussion
Matthews - shin problem

I probably missed a few in there and not just the bumps and bruises... Donald Lee was hurt, Quarless has been hurt, Corey Hall missed some games, Colledge with a knee injury, Collins with a knee and ribs, Peprah, Shields missed at least a game to injury, Bigby again, Zombo, ... In any event, the injuries definitely started early and continued to build-up early and often.

Despite that, the Packers started 3-1 this season before the injuries in Week 5 to Finley, Matthews and Rodgers against the Redskins. This was when fans everwhere predicted a coming apocolypse, which after the Dolphins loss, never came.

Credit the non-falloff to what you will (before Rodgers' 2nd concussion), but it certainly wasn't due to McCarthy's ineptitude.

I see a lot of parallel's to the 2001 - 2002 season. They started 7-1 and backed into the playoffs at 12-4, losing horribly in week 17 to the Jets, and then losing the infamous Vick playoff game at Lambeau the following week.

I agree with the perspective that you're cobbling together that McCarthy isn't to blame for the situation this year. But I hope you're not claiming that he gets a "free pass" for this season either. It exposed plenty of weaknesses that McCarthy and his staff need to work on.

[MJZiggy]

I see a lot of parallel's to the 2001 - 2002 season. They started 7-1 and backed into the playoffs at 12-4, losing horribly in week 17 to the Jets, and then losing the infamous Vick playoff game at Lambeau the following week.

I agree with the perspective that you're cobbling together that McCarthy isn't to blame for the situation this year. But I hope you're not claiming that he gets a "free pass" for this season either. It exposed plenty of weaknesses that McCarthy and his staff need to work on.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that there aren't things that he and his staff need to work on. But to say that he needs to be fired after this season is a little nuts.

[vince]

I see a lot of parallel's to the 2001 - 2002 season. They started 7-1 and backed into the playoffs at 12-4, losing horribly in week 17 to the Jets, and then losing the infamous Vick playoff game at Lambeau the following week.

I agree with the perspective that you're cobbling together that McCarthy isn't to blame for the situation this year. But I hope you're not claiming that he gets a "free pass" for this season either. It exposed plenty of weaknesses that McCarthy and his staff need to work on.

Yes, I absolutely agree that McCarthy isn't blameless in some of the losses, but he also deserves a ton of credit. If they can get into the playoffs, this team could be dangerous.

[RashanGary]

Yeah Vince. The Matthews one, in particular, killed us.

[pbmax]

Vets may have had problems on ST, but look at the lineup week to week. Its never the same and that unit needs time together to function as a cohesive whole. Should it matter? Possibly not. But it has mattered. Look at Matthews, Clifton and Woodson when they are unavailable to practice. They are less effective. Same goes for a unit like the coverage teams.

But for penalties, I agree that is on the team and specifically on the coaches and vets. Since that debacle in Chicago, they have reigned in the ridiculous numbers, proving that those difficulties could have been avoided much earlier in the season.

[mraynrand]

Yeah Vince. The Matthews one, in particular, killed us.

Matthews hammy, Rodger's concussion, and some bad mistakes - FG miss, Jones fumble and bad route probably cost the Packers three games, even with all the other injuries. This team should have 10 wins now. Stubby isn't the only one to blame. 10 wins and in the driver's seat for a playoff spot. It's a crying shame the way this season has gone. The Giants game this weekend is going to make 2002 at the Jets look like a competitive game. The Packers are going to get slaughtered like a used Michael Vick fighting dog.

[RashanGary]

Matthews hammy, Rodger's concussion, and some bad mistakes - FG miss, Jones fumble and bad route probably cost the Packers three games, even with all the other injuries. This team should have 10 wins now. Stubby isn't the only one to blame. 10 wins and in the driver's seat for a playoff spot. It's a crying shame the way this season has gone. The Giants game this weekend is going to make 2002 at the Jets look like a competitive game. The Packers are going to get slaughtered like a used Michael Vick fighting dog.

Yeah, but I do still have complaints with MM. The biggest one I have is that it's been two seasons in a row now where he came out flat on offense. By the time he got it fixed in both instances, we were behind the 8-ball. Both times, Rodgers has come out saying a big reason for his success was them simplifying the playbook.

I'm really hoping we don't have to lose 3 or 4 games early next season to learn the same lesson we already learned the last two years.

What further put me over the edge was Flynn coming in and dominating a very simple, QB easy game plan. I know Rodgers is great, but if easy stuff is effective, let's sprinkle some of that in too. Sheesh. There's no shame in doing some of the old-fashioned, easy and proven stuff along with his new cutting edge stuff.

I'd take some of Sherman's repetitive simplicity right about now. I love MM's creative/attacking personality, but it's nothing if you don't have a nice group of core plays that you count on and teams have to adjust for.

[retailguy]

Yeah, but I do still have complaints with MM. The biggest one I have is that it's been two seasons in a row now where he came out flat on offense. By the time he got it fixed in both instances, we were behind the 8-ball. Both times, Rodgers has come out saying a big reason for his success was them simplifying the playbook.

I'm really hoping we don't have to lose 3 or 4 games early next season to learn the same lesson we already learned the last two years.

What further put me over the edge was Flynn coming in and dominating a very simple, QB easy game plan. I know Rodgers is great, but if easy stuff is effective, let's sprinkle some of that in too. Sheesh. There's no shame in doing some of the old-fashioned, easy and proven stuff along with his new cutting edge stuff.

I'd take some of Sherman's repetitive simplicity right about now. I love MM's creative/attacking personality, but it's nothing if you don't have a nice group of core plays that you count on and teams have to adjust for.

I'm not sure that simplicity is the right word, but I get what you mean. With Sherman, there was a core of plays that we did well, consistently. When we needed a 1st down to keep a drive going, we used one of those plays and the drive continued. With McCarthy, you just never know what comes out of the bag o tricks. Sometimes it works, but more often then not, it backfires and he looks like a creative fool instead of a genius. The drive dies and then, they have to start over.

This current Packers team has no identity, and no bread and butter play on offense that you can point to to say "that'll work", the drive will continue.

[pbmax]

Yeah, but I do still have complaints with MM. The biggest one I have is that it's been two seasons in a row now where he came out flat on offense. By the time he got it fixed in both instances, we were behind the 8-ball. Both times, Rodgers has come out saying a big reason for his success was them simplifying the playbook.

I'm really hoping we don't have to lose 3 or 4 games early next season to learn the same lesson we already learned the last two years.

What further put me over the edge was Flynn coming in and dominating a very simple, QB easy game plan. I know Rodgers is great, but if easy stuff is effective, let's sprinkle some of that in too. Sheesh. There's no shame in doing some of the old-fashioned, easy and proven stuff along with his new cutting edge stuff.

I'd take some of Sherman's repetitive simplicity right about now. I love MM's creative/attacking personality, but it's nothing if you don't have a nice group of core plays that you count on and teams have to adjust for.

Did we (Packerrats) infer the simplicity this year? I am pretty sure there has not been reporting about the offense this year like last. Do you remember where you got this from?

Clearly they have struggled to get past or replace what Finley and Grant gave the offense, but I am not sure simplicity was the answer this year.

[vince]

Because of some of the injuries, I do seem to recall some talk of shortening up the number of plays included in some of the game plans, although I don't have a specific link to any documented discussion of it. Maybe Justin can source it.