McCarthy and "Close Games"

[rbaloha1]

Another way to look at is is that most all of MM's loses have been close games. He either keeps the Packers in the game or blows out the other team. Is that such a terrible thing?

Yes. Generally playoff games are close. 0-6 in close games is not a good stat.

[vince]

That's funny. Not only do we only count the games decided by 4 or less, but we only count the games that the Packers lose. That makes perfect sense.

[HarveyWallbangers]

McCarthy in games decided by one score

2006 4-2
2007 5-2
2008 1-7
2009 3-3
2010 2-6

Total = 15-20. Take out 2008, and the record is 14-13 (Rodgers first year and the defensive collapses). Apparently, McCarthy was a great coach in 2006 and 2007, an average coach in 2009, and a bad coach in 2008 and 2010.

[Bretsky]

McCarthy in games decided by one score

2006 4-2
2007 5-2
2008 1-7
2009 3-3
2010 2-6

Total = 15-20. Take out 2008, and the record is 14-13 (Rodgers first year and the defensive collapses). Apparently, McCarthy was a great coach in 2006 and 2007, an average coach in 2009, and a bad coach in 2008 and 2010.

Take out 2007 and he is 10-18

Most of this just backs my feeling that MM is average.

[vince]

McCarthy's record is 48-34. Regardless of your feelings Bretsky, the facts show that he's done better than average while Thompson has rebuilt the roster from the gound up and he's done it with the youngest teams in the league year in and year out. He's developed the team into one of the most competitive in the league that now looks an awful lot like a perennial contender. That's a bit better than average I'd say.

[retailguy]

McCarthy in games decided by one score

2006 4-2
2007 5-2
2008 1-7
2009 3-3
2010 2-6

Total = 15-20. Take out 2008, and the record is 14-13 (Rodgers first year and the defensive collapses). Apparently, McCarthy was a great coach in 2006 and 2007, an average coach in 2009, and a bad coach in 2008 and 2010.

Look, I understand what you guys are saying, and to an extent, I agree with you.

But ask yourself (looking into the bathroom mirror, all alone where no one can see you and you don't have to admit it to anyone), if you can go into a close 4th quarter battle with a division foe, and you can only take ONE coach, do you take McCarthy?

Me neither.

And that's OK. He is what he is, and we've got him indefinitely.

(And I disagree with the sentiment that he's better than Sherman. I see them as equivalent coaches in different ways.)

[vince]

McCarthy has some proving to do yet, but the fascination with this year's record in games decided by 4 or less is hand-picking stats to support preconceived opinion.

Going into yesterday's huge game with playoff implications against a team most thought was custom-built for just such a situation, McCarthy's team kicked the living shit out of its opponent.

Yeah, I'll take that.

[retailguy]

McCarthy has some proving to do yet, but the fascination with this year's record in games decided by 4 or less is hand-picking stats to support preconceived opinion. Going into yesterday's huge game with playoff implications against a team most thought was custom-built for just such a situation, McCarthy kicked the shit out of his opponent.

Yeah, I'll take that.

Well Vince, there are some who continually harp on the 4 pts statistic, and it is what it is. Other things are just as important, if not more. At the end of the day, I'm in the Bretsky camp, McCarthy is average, to slightly above. Just like Sherman. Time will tell if he can improve on that.

I happen to believe that McCarthy puts too much value on "creativity and outsmarting" his opponents instead of just going out and flawlessly executing the things that your team does well and making the opponent stop you. Both have a place, and both are critical parts of a coaches job, but I'd like to see more of #2 and less of #1. I believe that makes #1 more effective, and more of an effective #2 makes for longer, sustained drives.

I just think, at the end of the day, these very vocal defenses of an average coach dilute your point. Honestly you guys are making McCarthy appear to be the second coming of Christ, when in reality, I'm not so sure that McCarthy makes an average John the Baptist. What you guys are doing is no different than what the "4pt crowd" is doing. You're just on the other extreme.

[vince]

McCarthy is what he is. 14 games over .500 with a young ascending team and an unproven playoff record. There's a lot ahead to be determined here. So far, he's on the right path in the big picture. Those bashing him and wanting him gone based on an overly small sample size and hand-picked data at this point are grossly premature in my opinion. I can't speak for others, but any other interpretation of my position on McCarthy is an inaccurate projection by those making it.

[retailguy]

McCarthy is what he is. 14 games over .500 with a young ascending team and an unproven playoff record. There's a lot ahead to be determined here. So far, he's on the right path in the big picture. Those bashing him and wanting him gone based on an overly small sample size and hand-picked data at this point are grossly premature in my opinion. I can't speak for others, but any other interpretation of my position on McCarthy is an inaccurate projection by those making it.

I'd agree with you, but I'd also say that you've got an inaccurate projection too.

When I said McCarthy is average, I think you nailed it when you said "he is what he is". Occasionally he'll strike lightning in a bottle and we'll look like world beaters. But can we build on that? I'm not so sure.

I'm watching pre game warm ups for the Falcons right now. What we'll see out of them tonight are plays that they do well consistently. We'll see 25 carries out of turner, most likely. We'll see a fair share of TE dumpoffs to Gonzalez, and we'll see some passes out there for Roddy White to take away from the defense. In short, we'll see a few creative plays, but the bulk will be "this is who we are, and this is what we do". It's been successful to the tune of 2 losses, vs our 6. (Yes, injuries explain some of that, stick with me for a minute more.)

I'm just not convinced that "a team" can build on McCarthy's creativity. A team can build around plays they do well. They can execute them better and better over time (ala U71). They can improve and extend them and change looks and just flat out execute them. McCarthy's way? Not so sure. Too much change and finesse, and less repetition.

I believe I see too much "what's next coach?", out of the players, and less "I can do that again, just get me the ball".

I think it's tougher for McCarthy's team to build off the 45-17 drubbing, than it would be for the Falcons. Guess we'll see next year, huh? In the meantime, we'll see which Packers show up next week. Will it be the week 3 version, or the week 16 version? With McCarthy, you never know. With the Falcons? I think the difference is clear, guess I'll find out in the next hour or so.

[bobblehead]

McCarthy in games decided by one score

2006 4-2
2007 5-2
2008 1-7
2009 3-3
2010 2-6

Total = 15-20. Take out 2008, and the record is 14-13 (Rodgers first year and the defensive collapses). Apparently, McCarthy was a great coach in 2006 and 2007, an average coach in 2009, and a bad coach in 2008 and 2010.

He was riding Favre's greatness in '06.....before anyone says something so stupid, he rode it to an 8-8 record if i recall.

[bobblehead]

Look, I understand what you guys are saying, and to an extent, I agree with you.

But ask yourself (looking into the bathroom mirror, all alone where no one can see you and you don't have to admit it to anyone), if you can go into a close 4th quarter battle with a division foe, and you can only take ONE coach, do you take McCarthy?

Me neither.

And that's OK. He is what he is, and we've got him indefinitely.

(And I disagree with the sentiment that he's better than Sherman. I see them as equivalent coaches in different ways.)

Agree with the shermy comparison...his failure was as a GM and inability to get Favre to stop throwing late over the middle. You asked who I would take as my ONE coach....depends on who the players are. They win and lose games. Coaches put them in position to win or lose....MM consistently has them in position to win. He is fine. He CAN win the big one. Will he?? Depends on the players.

[Bretsky]

McCarthy's record is 48-34. Regardless of your feelings Bretsky, the facts show that he's done better than average while Thompson has rebuilt the roster from the gound up and he's done it with the youngest teams in the league year in and year out. He's developed the team into one of the most competitive in the league that now looks an awful lot like a perennial contender. That's a bit better than average I'd say.

Gosh I didn't think was part of the extremist group some are in here who are calling MM a bad playcaller and calling for him to be fired; I think I defend him way more than criticizing him n game threads and there is nothing wrong with being average as an NFL coach

I think I"ve noted he'd probably be in the 14-18 group of coaches in my book; you can twist stats either way. I'm not going to say he's above average due to 48-34 and I'm not going to say he's below average or shoud be fired due to the record in close games.

[Bretsky]

Agree with the shermy comparison...his failure was as a GM and inability to get Favre to stop throwing late over the middle. You asked who I would take as my ONE coach....depends on who the players are. They win and lose games. Coaches put them in position to win or lose....MM consistently has them in position to win. He is fine. He CAN win the big one. Will he?? Depends on the players.

completely agree

[mraynrand]

Gosh I didn't think was part of the extremist group some are in here who are calling MM a bad playcaller and calling for him to be fired; I think I defend him way more than criticizing him n game threads and there is nothing wrong with being average as an NFL coach

I think I"ve noted he'd probably be in the 14-18 group of coaches in my book; you can twist stats either way. I'm not going to say he's above average due to 48-34 and I'm not going to say he's below average or shoud be fired due to the record in close games.

There are 13 coaches better than Stubby?