Desmond Bishop Extended!

[vince]

This year the Packer Defense versus the TE:

DVOA: 13.0%
Rank: 22
Passes/Gm: 6.6
Yds/Gm: 54.0

Last year:
DVOA: -21.7%
Rank: 3
Passes/Gm: 6.9
Yds/Gm: 50.2

DVOA stands for Defense-adjusted Value Over Average. Offensive numbers are positive so negative numbers are good for defense. The TEs are being targeted slightly less but for slightly more yards. DVOA also tracks the outcome of a play (score, first down, halving the distance for the next first down). So by their book, TE coverage has suffered. Chillar might make a difference.

Every other type of receiver has be covered more effectively this year (number 1, 2, otherWR and RB). If I had to guess it would TDs scored by the TE.

I stand corrected. Thanks for looking that up PB. I just remember Chillar getting beat at important times I guess, even this year when he's played.

[Patler]

but, now they have leverage against hawk. No way hawk can really ask for more than Bishop. Same maybe, but not more. So if they somehow landed hawk for the same deal, we would have hawk, chillar, and Bishop locked for 4,3 and 4 years. Barnett has 2 left at 6+million. He would be expendable.

I don't know that they really have a lot of leverage against Hawk. Their options are to pay him his bonus, or lose him with no compensation whatsoever, just like Wahle. If let go, Hawk will get a decent contract somewhere. He is experienced, healthy, young and reliable.

[Patler]

I'm sorry, but chillar just is not the answer. Coaches all said he played for is cover skills, yet every team threw AT chillar. He is a nice backup, but is not a starter, at least not on a championship caliber football team.

Chiller is often called the Packers best pass coverage linebacker. I have always looked at that more as an indictment against the ability of the others in pass coverage than as a compliment to Chiller's ability. Chiller strikes me as a guy who SHOULD be good in coverage, but for some reason never really comes up big when needed.

[vince]

I don't know that they really have a lot of leverage against Hawk. Their options are to pay him his bonus, or lose him with no compensation whatsoever, just like Wahle. If let go, Hawk will get a decent contract somewhere. He is experienced, healthy, young and reliable.

At minimum, they strengthen their position by signing Bishop because they can afford to lose Hawk if he refuses to restructure or wants too much. From what I've heard out of Hawk over time, I think he sincerely wants to stay in Green Bay.

[pbmax]

I stand corrected. Thanks for looking that up PB. I just remember Chillar getting beat at important times I guess, even this year when he's played.

Yeah, I am not sure how to square those numbers with my memory. I seem to recall a LOT more long TE catches last year. But TE catches are down this year, and their avg. per catch is down. My guess is that they are still getting their team closer to a 1st down (one way they measure success) without as many big plays and are scoring more (which I think has happened).

Given how lights out the other coverage has been (versus the #1 WR, #2, other WR and RB the scores are double digit negative), the TE might remain the best of fewer options.

[Patler]

At minimum, they strengthen their position by signing Bishop because they can afford to lose Hawk if he refuses to restructure or wants too much. From what I've heard out of Hawk over time, I think he sincerely wants to stay in Green Bay.

Any leverage that gives the Packers depends entirely on how badly Hawk wants to stay in GB. I'm not too sure the desire to stay is that great with Hawk. Didn't he put his house up for sale this fall? It is my understanding it was a custom designed house he had built as a rookie. Kind of soon to have it on the market if he really wants to try to stay. My interpretation was that he knew he would be gone at the end of this season by the Packers choice, or at the latest at the end of 2011 at his own choice. I think he intends to be gone one way or the other. Hawk says all the right things, but I think he will look for a better opportunity somewhere else. Don't forget, early this year there was a game in which he did not play at all on defense, just STs. I doubt that sat well with him, even if he said nothing.

[vince]

Don't forget, early this year there was a game in which he did not play at all on defense, just STs. I doubt that sat well with him, even if he said nothing.

That was precisely the time when he put his house up for sale if I'm not mistaken - or at least that was the time when it was noticed by bloggers and the media. He wants to play no doubt. It'll be iinteresting to see how it pans out.

[mraynrand]

Don't forget, early this year there was a game in which he did not play at all on defense, just STs. I doubt that sat well with him, even if he said nothing.

That was Philly, when they stayed in nickel most (all?) of the game. Hey - think Hawk will be sidelined again this Saturday?? (LOL)

My prediction: There will not be a street named after AJ Hawk in Green Bay WI.

[MichiganPackerFan]

Did it seem to anyone other than me that Hawk became more physical playing next to Bishop? When paired with Barnett, Hawk tackled a lot like Barnett, hanging on and dragging down ball carriers. He seems to be becoming more and more physical in pursuit, tackling and even blitzing the last few weeks.

One thing I like about Bishop is that we finally have an ILB who likes to HIT people. I'm still not sold on Hawk: he has had ONE good season that coincidentally was a contract year. His speed and college reputation hadn't carried to the NFL until this season.

It's interesting how quickly public opinion changes. A couple months ago, Barnett was considered the best overall LB on the team. Now people want him gone? Did one injury do all that?

At least with Barnett, you know what you've got. But he has had TWO major injuries in three seasons.

...Didn't he put his house up for sale this fall? It is my understanding it was a custom designed house he had built as a rookie. Kind of soon to have it on the market if he really wants to try to stay. My interpretation was that he knew he would be gone at the end of this season by the Packers choice, or at the latest at the end of 2011 at his own choice. I think he intends to be gone one way or the other....unity somewhere else. Don't forget, early this year there was a game in which he did not play at all on defense, just STs. I doubt that sat well with him, even if he said nothing.

In the long run, didn't this prove to be a non-story? If i recall correctly, Hawk and his wife had waterfront property and a small child and had a high level of concern. They sold that one and purchased another one I think. Can someone confirm?

[Smidgeon]

I know it can mostly be attributed to natural reaction, but is anyone else feeling whiplash from the abrupt about face on this message board on the value of Hawk? I know some people have been fans all along, but he was the source of an intense debate not too long ago.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Hawk has had one good year? I think that's funny. He's basically the same player he's always been. The only difference is that they let him play full-time his first 2-3 years, started replacing him with Chillar on passing downs once Capers got here, and now he's back to playing full-time because of the injuries to Chillar and Barnett. Hawk is solid. He's always been solid. Nothing more. Nothing less. The only thing that he's shown this year is that it looks like he's an excellent "quarterback" of the defense.

[vince]

I've always been generally a Hawk supporter as he's been solid, but I think the previous negative arguments had merit, as do the current positive ones. He's faster this year than he's been since his rookie year IMO.

[MichiganPackerFan]

AJ Hawk has been nothing special. He was put in position to make a LOT of tackles, which he did, but usually a couple yards after a solid player would do so. He had plenty of opportunity over the previous four years to show he belonged on the field and just didnt do it. I don't know if it was motivation or what. He hasn't made the plays that are expected from a 5th overall pick. He HAS played better this year, but it IS a contract year. He HAS been on the field before. Personally, i don't think there will be a post contract renewal drop off in his play and there is little risk in resigning him, but $10m / year requires better results.

[Patler]

AJ Hawk has been nothing special. He was put in position to make a LOT of tackles, which he did, but usually a couple yards after a solid player would do so. He had plenty of opportunity over the previous four years to show he belonged on the field and just didnt do it. I don't know if it was motivation or what. He hasn't made the plays that are expected from a 5th overall pick. He HAS played better this year, but it IS a contract year. He HAS been on the field before. Personally, i don't think there will be a post contract renewal drop off in his play and there is little risk in resigning him, but $10m / year requires better results.

They paid KGB $6.15 million in salary the year they cut him after the start of the season. Hawk is a better player now than KGB was at that time. Keeping Hawk for one Super-Bowl-run season at $10 million isn't so far fetched, imo. I could see them doing it for depth. In essence, it also would "buy" a draft pick if they let him go as a FA after 2011. They will get nothing if they let him walk this year. A lot could ride on whatever the salary cap rules are, if any.

[MichiganPackerFan]

They paid KGB $6.15 million in salary the year they cut him after the start of the season. Hawk is a better player now than KGB was at that time. Keeping Hawk for one Super-Bowl-run season at $10 million isn't so far fetched, imo. I could see them doing it for depth. In essence, it also would "buy" a draft pick if they let him go as a FA after 2011. They will get nothing if they let him walk this year. A lot could ride on whatever the salary cap rules are, if any.

I think with KGB they were so desperate for a pass rush, they were willing to not only pay him, but work hard to convince themselves he had something left in the tank. You may be right on Hawk though. It does seem as though he's finally "getting it".