McCarthy's Playcalling

[mraynrand]

P.S. The way McCarthy set the Philly D up for that pass to Jones at the end of the first half was a thing of beauty.

[mraynrand]

I agree that play calling overall was good, but this is the NFL... games are going to be tight, and mismanagement at the end of a game can cost you the game, and it nearly did this time.

Everybody gets caught up in the clock... forget the clock - to win the game you need to produce at least 3 1st downs. I don't mind running on 1st down, especially if the running game has been going well, but on 2nd and 3rd down, I'm putting that responsibility in the hands of my pro bowl QB. McCarthy got away with it on the 1st set of downs, but then basically punted on 2nd down after we picked up the initial 1st down.

He only gave his QB one shot at it, when the defense was expecting pass, and of course Rodgers was sacked... would much rather have seen a pass on 2nd down, when Philly was stacked for the run. If we go 2 incompletes, so what??? we're still handing them the same scenario regardless, i.e. the ball, and plenty of time on the clock. So the smart play is go for the 1st down thru the air on 2nd down - I would have spread the field and put the pressure on the defense; the conservative, play not to lose strategy is exactly what McCarthy did and it almost cost us the game.

That's a strongly argued position. The other way to look at it is if they don't complete passes, they don't force philly to use their last timeout, philly gets the ball back with enough time to be able to use their whole offense. With zero timeouts and less than 2 minutes, and a long field, philly really was forced to pass. And you have a defense out there that's played very well. That's the counter argument. That being said, I wold have liked to see some misdirection or play fake to a really safe pass on the second set of downs on the last drive. I suspect McCarthy got exited that his O-line was doing the job on the first set of downs, and put it on their shoulders. Well, they're just not good enough. Finally, consider this - McCarthy passes, the ball gets tipped and intercepted, giving Philly the ball at the Packer 30. How would that playcall ook today if Philly then scored on the short field?

[gbgary]

P.S. The way McCarthy set the Philly D up for that pass to Jones at the end of the first half was a thing of beauty.

agreed. could be wrong but wasn't that the only deep ball of the first half?

[mraynrand]

agreed. could be wrong but wasn't that the only deep ball of the first half?

There was an attempt to Nelson as well, I think

[pbmax]

I agree, trying to run the ball on 2nd down with @4 minutes to go wasn't MM's finest hour yesterday. Then on 3rd down everyone knew we had to pass and Rodgers got sacked. Oh well, we won and that is ALL that really matters.

Actually, if McCarthy is going to go with draining the clock strategy, then the mistake was passing on 3rd down. Run it again and drain another 45 seconds or a TO.

If you want another first down, then some misdirection was needed on 2nd or 3rd down. If I have a criticism of McCarthy, its that his clock management play calls seem to be thought out only on step at a time. Want to drain the clock? Run three times. Want another first in the 4 minute offense? Then two runs and play action. That is one reason I like the Starks/Johnson backfield. You send 'em both through the line on a play fake and both could be outlet receivers with a chance to get the first.

[pbmax]

I agree that play calling overall was good, but this is the NFL... games are going to be tight, and mismanagement at the end of a game can cost you the game, and it nearly did this time.

Everybody gets caught up in the clock... forget the clock - to win the game you need to produce at least 3 1st downs. I don't mind running on 1st down, especially if the running game has been going well, but on 2nd and 3rd down, I'm putting that responsibility in the hands of my pro bowl QB. McCarthy got away with it on the 1st set of downs, but then basically punted on 2nd down after we picked up the initial 1st down.

He only gave his QB one shot at it, when the defense was expecting pass, and of course Rodgers was sacked... would much rather have seen a pass on 2nd down, when Philly was stacked for the run. If we go 2 incompletes, so what??? we're still handing them the same scenario regardless, i.e. the ball, and plenty of time on the clock. So the smart play is go for the 1st down thru the air on 2nd down - I would have spread the field and put the pressure on the defense; the conservative, play not to lose strategy is exactly what McCarthy did and it almost cost us the game.

But its not the same scenario. It adds 40 seconds and let's them keep a TO.

But he has to decide: first down or drain clock? Three runs can drain 2 minutes off the game clock if there are no penalties. If that's what you want, then do it.

[mraynrand]

Actually, if McCarthy is going to go with draining the clock strategy, then the mistake was passing on 3rd down. Run it again and drain another 45 seconds or a TO.

I wondered at the time if Rodgers took the sack on purpose instead of throwing it away for exactly this reason.

[pbmax]

I wondered at the time if Rodgers took the sack on purpose instead of throwing it away for exactly this reason.

That could have been his instructions. But that is a difficult call for even the coolest QB. But he has shown he is willing to take punishment to avoid a bad throw, so he might be the one to pull it off.

[vince]

Want to drain the clock? Run three times. Want another first? Then two runs and play action.

He wants both. The 3rd down play action would obviously be an option, but the 2nd down run that created 3rd and long didn't give much credibility to play action at that point and limits options for reading the D as the QB turns his back to the defense for so long and restricts the number of receivers and likely the amount of field that can be used in 10+ yard routes off play action roll-out. It's about ball control at that point, and play action isn't the best ball-control pass play. The likelihood of incompletion or thow away stopping the clock is much higher in play action in that circumstance. The sack was in effect a run for a loss in that circumstance as it kept the clock running.

[gbgary]

getting a first down would have ensured a Packers win. giving the ball back to vick was the worst possible scenario and it nearly cost them the game. had the Packers kept trying to score (which they were doing pretty much at will,) instead of bogging themselves down, it wouldn't have gotten to that point.

[vince]

getting a first down would have ensured a Packers win. giving the ball back to vick was the worst possible scenario and it nearly cost them the game. had the Packers kept trying to score (which they were doing pretty much at will,) instead of bogging themselves down, it wouldn't have gotten to that point.

Wrong. There are many scenarios worse than punting in that situation. Even punting with another minute on the clock is far worse.

[Patler]

Actually, if McCarthy is going to go with draining the clock strategy, then the mistake was passing on 3rd down. Run it again and drain another 45 seconds or a TO.

The pass play resulting in the sack before the last punt? If he had run the ball on 3rd down, the two-minute warning would still have stopped the clock before the punt. It would not have changed anything if they didn't get the first down. The only thing that could have changed things would have been an incompletion rather than a sack before two minutes, which might have given the Eagles an extra 7 or 8 seconds, or so.

[pbmax]

He wants both. The 3rd down play action would obviously be an option, but the 2nd down run that created 3rd and long didn't give much credibility to play action at that point and limits options for reading the D as the QB turns his back to the defense for so long and restricts the number of receivers and likely the amount of field that can be used in 10+ yard routes off play action roll-out. It's about ball control at that point, and play action isn't the best ball-control pass play. The likelihood of incompletion or thow away stopping the clock is much higher in play action in that circumstance. The sack was in effect a run for a loss in that circumstance as it kept the clock running.

I gotcha vince. But what I meant was mix the play action in once with the two runs, somehwere, in the three plays. There is no logical reason to make it the third play unless you are breaking a tendency.

[vince]

OK then. Nevermind.

[pbmax]

The pass play resulting in the sack before the last punt? If he had run the ball on 3rd down, the two-minute warning would still have stopped the clock before the punt. It would not have changed anything if they didn't get the first down. The only thing that could have changed things would have been an incompletion rather than a sack before two minutes, which might have given the Eagles an extra 7 or 8 seconds, or so.

I am not saying it worked badly for the Packers. The sack and then the clock runoff were fine if that was the goal, same as a run. But trying to pass in that situation put everyone is the toughest spot if he was trying for the first. If he wanted the first, the use play action somewhere, not a shotgun pass on third and long.