Officiating

[sharpe1027]

Is it because he's a runner/ball carrier? I know when Quarless got hit (against Philly) the announcers commented on it, but looked at it again, and said because he had control and taken a step, he was a ball carrier and the rule didn't apply. However, looking at the rule mraynrand posted, I see no mention of that as an excuse.

I think the Quarless situation was the "defenseless receiver" rule, which doesn't require helmet contact to apply. Thus, the question was when he stopped being a defenseless receiver and became a ball carrier. It would still be problematic if the defender unnecessarily lead with the helmet.

[sharpe1027]

I guess my question would be: can you not play the ball without looking at the ball? I ask because one of Jenning's best traits is that he doesn't put his hands up until the last second to catch the ball. It removes the visual cues to the defender. Which means that some defenders can play the ball without looking at the ball because they're watching the receiver. So they can make a play on the ball without touching the receiver or looking at the ball.

Or would that be considered "not playing the ball"?

You can make an argument that it is possible to make a play on the ball without looking at it. Realistically, the enforcement of the rule always seems to center around whether the defender is looking for the ball. They are consistent about that, if nothing else.

[pbmax]

A player rarely (and I have never seen) gets a spearing flag for hitting with the helmet on a ball carrier who is upright and still in play while attempting to make a legit tackle. Rand's rule quote would seem to cover this situation and call for a flag, but I don't remember it. If he launched himself with both feet off the ground, then its a different 15 yard penalty. If Kuhn had just caught a pass, different story.

The extra emphasis this year has been on the defenseless players (receivers in the act of making a catch and QBs throwing) which is why Chris Kluwe wrote that whiteboard message to Goodell (and TwitPic'd it) after the instructional video came out. Kluwe took Goodell to task for protecting only the glamor boys.

And Rand had a good breakdown of the DB turning around to find the pass debate. While face guarding is not a penalty, you obviously get a wider latitude from the refs if you seem to make a play on the ball.

[Guiness]

A player rarely (and I have never seen) gets a spearing flag for hitting with the helmet on a ball carrier who is upright and still in play while attempting to make a legit tackle. Rand's rule quote would seem to cover this situation and call for a flag, but I don't remember it. If he launched himself with both feet off the ground, then its a different 15 yard penalty. If Kuhn had just caught a pass, different story.

The extra emphasis this year has been on the defenseless players (receivers in the act of making a catch and QBs throwing) which is why Chris Kluwe wrote that whiteboard message to Goodell (and TwitPic'd it) after the instructional video came out. Kluwe took Goodell to task for protecting only the glamor boys.

And Rand had a good breakdown of the DB turning around to find the pass debate. While face guarding is not a penalty, you obviously get a wider latitude from the refs if you seem to make a play on the ball.

Just went and looked at that - pretty funny.

But...who the heck is Chris Kluwe?

[mraynrand]

Just went and looked at that - pretty funny.

But...who the heck is Chris Kluwe?

Viking Punter. He shouldn't get any protection. Just beat the hell out of him.

[Guiness]

Viking Punter. He shouldn't get any protection. Just beat the hell out of him.

Ah, that's what all the video game references were about. He's the guy who was a guitar hero master.

[bobblehead]

For the first - it was contact - Shields hit his arms before the ball got there. That is technically interference, not jockeying for the ball. Now, if his head had been turned, like the Jones defender, the refs would have very likely let it go, because Shields has the right to make a play on the ball. Since he wasn't looking for the ball, he is 'playing the man' not the ball - it is interference. The refs are trained (and d backs are trained) to know this critical difference.

I see your point, and in real time I can see why it was ruled that way. As he deflected the ball he wasn't looking back, but I maintain he had located it previously and was definately playing it. I guess my problem is that JJ was interfered with far more in the endzone with no call, but again, in realtime you are right, the officials use the head direction as the golden rule (most of the time).

I have a huge bias against PI as it is. A penatly that is subjective that can flip the field position or impact a game so dramatically bothers me.

As for the spear, it was blatant and ugly. The first contact was the helmets, then the bodies. He lowered his head. he lead with it. Kuhn was visibly shaken. It was a flagrant foul. I saw others in the game. On the Jennings fumble Jordy ran up to tackle the defender with the ball and an offensive guy blasted him in the back in the open field. On almost every return they blocked in the back (not the TD that I saw). I guess I can't complain because they let both sides play for the most part. Early I felt they were leaning towards Atlanta, but as we imposed our will on them, the officials felt that and started calling it evenly.

[mraynrand]

As he deflected the ball he wasn't looking back, but I maintain he had located it previously and was definately playing it.

I have no idea how you can think a d back is playing the ball when he isn't looking for it and can't see it.