wow. lots of talk about the running games

[Tarlam!]

Waldo!

+1

Love Waldo's takes, always have, always will.

[Freak Out]

I like it when Waldo posts drunk.

[CaptainKickass]

But answer this, who actually "established the run" against GB?

The silence is broken.

Glad to see you posting here as always.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I've made the argument that Waldo is making. Our run stats aren't good, but we are a good run defense. I think Miami and Minnesota established the run against us early in the season, but we were beat up. Earlier in the year, QBs were gouging us pretty good on scrambles. Not so much lately.

[vince]

Yeah, not to pile on pb, but I too recall mentioning how the Packers were playing mostly nickel and that they weren't giving up points so there was no real problem with the run defense numbers. That's the Packers' best defense to both attack at the LOS and simultaneously protect against big plays, which is a central tenet of Capers' philosophy going back to the advent of the zone blitz.

Even in the last game against the Bears, most of Forte's yards came on 2 plays where Walden failed to hold the edge as I recall. Other than that he was pretty much shut down and it seems as if Walden has learned from those plays.

The 3-3 d I think refers to the nickel package where Walden's been playing off the LOS in the middle spying on the QB. It's not really a 3-3 unless you consider one of the OLB's playing on the LOS as a d-lineman.

[MichiganPackerFan]

What Waldo's talking about is why I think Raji is the Defensive MVP. His presence inside enables Dom to go mostly nickel without getting gashed by opposing running games. That keeps Woodson inside where he is most effective and dangerous.

I think that Raji had every bit the great season that Matthews did, with more consistency.

I'm still concerned about defending the mid level passing game. CHI has a good TE and the quick passing game killed us v AZ last year. How do they plan to stop the TE? It's not like any of our LB's play the pass very well. It seems to me QB pressure is the only way to disrupt it.

and finally: WALDO!!!!!

[Packers4Glory]

This will be interesting to see how chicago tries to utilize Olsen. he has 10 catches vs GB for 93 yards this yr. thats almost 25% of his receptions on the season. He's not a big part of their offense even tho he is their best receiver. However everyone knows GB hasn't been that great at stopping the TE this yr. I was surprised we held Tony Gonzalez as he was my big concern after stopping Tuner. Its going to be one of those things to look at as the game progresses. I wonder if we'll see a lot of Woodson on him and letting T-will and Shields cover their burners Knox and Hester?

[mraynrand]

One of the reasons the Packers are so good in the Nickel is that Woodson can tackle, and you rarely - if ever - see a lineman, TE, or FB lay a finger on him for a block. Woodson often has a completely free path to the ball carrier if he wants it and if he 'risks' it. If I were Chicago, I probably would spend some time figuring out how to block Woodson on run plays.

[sharpe1027]

I think that Raji had every bit the great season that Matthews did, with more consistency.

I'm still concerned about defending the mid level passing game. CHI has a good TE and the quick passing game killed us v AZ last year. How do they plan to stop the TE? It's not like any of our LB's play the pass very well. It seems to me QB pressure is the only way to disrupt it.

and finally: WALDO!!!!!

Another way to disrupt their mid level passing game is to have Cutler back there. I have also read that Chicago has gone away from the deeper drops and intermediate-to-long passing game that goes with it because their OL couldn't hold up that long.

Regarding the defense, I would imagine that the way we lineup really makes it difficult on opposing offenses. Normally an offense can call a play (in the huddle or audible) based upon what package the other team is in. Not so much with the Packers, they can take the same lineup and come out with completely different schemes. Dom has taken full advantage of having a DB that can lineup and be an effective LB (both for blitzes and run support) while still being good in coverage. Much of this is made possible because of our huge/powerful DL that allows them to go with only three, two or even one DL and still not get run on. It doesn't hurt that Hawk has been solid at standing up blockers to free up others to make plays.

I also love how our Defense looks like they are all just randomly wandering about right up until the ball is snapped. I've also seen them show a blitz, but if the QB doesn't snap the ball and makes an audible, the Defense seems to be making a counter audible. All of this and very few breakdowns. That's says a lot about both the coaching and the players

[Brandon494]

I think that Raji had every bit the great season that Matthews did, with more consistency.

I'm still concerned about defending the mid level passing game. CHI has a good TE and the quick passing game killed us v AZ last year. How do they plan to stop the TE? It's not like any of our LB's play the pass very well. It seems to me QB pressure is the only way to disrupt it.

and finally: WALDO!!!!!

We just played against Brent Celek and Tony Gonzalez and your worried about Greg Olsen beating us?

[Brandon494]

Who cares.

When GB tries to stop the run, they stuff it. Dom plays nickel even against run personnel. They aren't actually trying to run, they are trying to "keep the defense honest" to set up PA. Dom is dishonest. GB played more nickel in '10 than any other team, by a huge margin. And GB was the best team against PA passing. By a huge margin. Runs don't gash GB for explosive plays that set up scores. They make 2nd/3rd down manageable, that about it. Dom runs the ultimate white elephant D. GB is one of the best in the league at stuffing short yardage runs (#2), one of the best in the league at not allowing TD's, and well above average at not allowing first downs via the run. Odd for a team that is one of the league's worst at YPA. LOL.

Those are some good stats but that still doesnt change the fact that Matt Forte had a great game against us in week 17. We must contain him on Sunday and force Cutler to beat us.

[mraynrand]

Those are some good stats but that still doesnt change the fact that Matt Forte had a great game against us in week 17. We must contain him on Sunday and force Cutler to beat us.

I'll be OK if Forte is their top receiver again, but I'd like to see less than 80 yards

[Packers4Glory]

We just played against Brent Celek and Tony Gonzalez and your worried about Greg Olsen beating us?

Olsen is better than Celek and maybe a better pass catcher now than Gozalez is.

[Lurker64]

Those are some good stats but that still doesnt change the fact that Matt Forte had a great game against us in week 17. We must contain him on Sunday and force Cutler to beat us.

I think really, compared to the week 17 game, what we need to beat the Bears this time is a better showing by the offense. Considering how well they've played in the last couple weeks (2nd half against Philly notwithstanding) I'm reasonably confident that they can do that.

[pbmax]

Discounting the D's run game numbers is a dangerous game. Now I am all for limiting big pass plays even if it means giving something up in the run D. The improvement in scoring D this year is evidence that this has been worth it. But there is a danger in the tradeoff. Some dope at JSO today subtracted the QB rushing statistics from the Packers Run D and proclaimed them second best in the league. I couldn't find a clear headed individual that mentioned the comparison no longer was meaningful since he was comparing two completely different run categories.

Running QBs get first downs too. And Cutler is not afraid to take off. He is almost as athletic as Rodgers when running and he does not seem to run scared. He is no Vick, so he isn't scoring from 35 yards out, but he can easily keep drives alive. That keeps a defense on the field and alters the field position game. This mattered in both Bear games, the Dolphins and versus the Eagles. It matters more versus the Bears given the ST advantage.

It did not matter versus the Falcons because the offense was going through the Falcon secondary like a knife through butter. Rodgers is not likely to have that kind of success versus the Bears D.

They need to keep the Bears run game in check so that not every Packer drive starts inside their own 20. If it does, the game will look like Week 17.