Barnett Refuses to Move?

[red]

Yup lets move Barnett to a position he isnt suited for sounds great. I would also like Favre at WR, Taucher at FB, Clifton at DT and Woodson at Qb.

Move a 194 tackle guy outside for a rookie that may have had a decent scrimmage against guys he sees every day. Sounds like madden football on Xbox not the NFL...

his college coaches seemed to think he was a perfect fit for OLB

it was sherman that thought he should be a MLB

that right there should be enough to prove that #56 should be outside lol

and i don't think anyone is saying hodge should just be handed the MLB spot now. he does have to prove himself against real teams in real situations. but if he does prove to be a very good or dominate MLB in preseason and in the backup role, and better at it then barnett, then we have a problem.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I guess if Cliff Christl believes in Barnett than this topic is now muted. Good find Harvey

Ironically, he posted that in today's chat--while we were having this discussion. I'm sure you meant that sarcastically, but I like Uncle Cliffy. Although I don't agree with everything he says, I think he often gives a non-homeristic view of the team.

[Tony Oday]

Red you just put me in a box Sherman thought he would be good there hehe

[Partial]

I guess if Cliff Christl believes in Barnett than this topic is now muted. Good find Harvey

Ironically, he posted that in today's chat--while we were having this discussion. I'm sure you meant that sarcastically, but I like Uncle Cliffy. Although I don't agree with everything he says, I think he often gives a non-homeristic view of the team.

Can you post the chat good sir?

[HarveyWallbangers]

his college coaches seemed to think he was a perfect fit for OLB

His college coaches also seemed to think he was a good fit at S. Different scheme. Different level of competition. If we played Shurmur's defense, I'd say move him to OLB. I just think he's a better fit at MLB than OLB in this scheme. Mainly because you need a sideline-to-sideline guy at MLB. I'm guessing Hodge will start getting reps at SLB to challenge Taylor before Barnett is moved outside.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Chat with Uncle Cliffy today:

Q: Terry Williams of Green bay - Hi Cliff, Amad Carrol reminds me of Terel Buckley in many ways. As it turned out, T-Buck was a better nickle player than out in space on the corner. Do you think that may also be the case with carroll?

A: Cliff Christl - Carroll is playing on the corner and Woodson in the slot in the nickel. In the dime, Woodson and Carroll are both in the slot. So I don't know how to answer your question. Frankly, I don't see a lot of similarities between Carroll and Buckley other than that they are both under 5-10. Thanks for all the questions. Q: Walter of Kenosha - Hey Cliff, thanks for taking my question. I think on the defensive side if players are used in the right situations, we could really have much more improved defense than we are expecting. How has Brady Poppinga looked since returning? If I remember correctly he has a good motor and can be an effective 3rd down rusher. Do you think the Packers will use him as a compliment to KGB in passing situations. And does Mongomery look good enough to be a 1st-2nd down guy to keep KGB fresher for what he does best?

A: Cliff Christl - Poppinga hasn't done much yet. Montgomery didn't show much early, but has made some plays in the last few days. Q: Dave of Beloit - Silverstein made some interesting observations about Hodge's strenghts and weaknesses in his article Monday. Since we have a new coaching regime why is there still a refusal to recognize that Barnett is better suited to play outside with his speed/pursuit talent and Hodge to man the middle with his shorter burst speed and more punishing hitting? We all know Barnett made a lot of tackles in years past but precious few were at the line of scrimmage or of the bell ringing variety that middle linebackers should make...

A: Cliff Christl - Speed at middle linebacker offers some real advantages in scheming in today's game. And Barnett has speed. I'm not sure you're right: That he'd be better outside. I think he's better suited for middle linebacker than the weak-side. I don't know about strong side in this defense. Never seen him there. Q: Dave of Minneapolis - hey Cliff, I read the article the other day about Ferguson coming to camp "rippled" with muscles and running 4.3's. Is this just training camp gibberish? Or does he actually look better? Had the Packers cut him last year, I wouldn't have lost any sleep.

A: Cliff Christl - I wrote in mini-camp that he seemed to be playing a little faster and looked healthier, and I still see that. But I don't see him making a lot of plays or being consistent. He made a nice catch over Woodson yesterday, but there have been more times where I thought a defender out-fought him for the ball. Q: Brittany of Goshen - Cliff, The NFL season is a journey and not an instant hit or miss proposition. Take last year...The Bears were no better than the rest of the division through 7 games but then looked awesome once they gained confidense and got a couple wins under thier belt. The 92 Packers were 0-2 and 3-5 before coming back under young Brett to win 6 straight and get in the hunt.Even the 2000 Super Bowl champion Ravens went all of October without scoring an offensive TD and looked like a playoff longshot before they erupted in mid-November. All that being said, isn't it possible that theis Packer team will start out trying to feel its way and may struggle early but as the "O" line gets the knack of the zone scheme and the defense starts to jell the team could be in the hunt by November? It seems to me thats what happened last year to the Dolphins. What is your take on my theory?

A: Cliff Christl - You're absolutely right. You never know. A team can get on a roll, gain confidence and surprise, as you noted. But, again, I think it takes some special players and I don't see any playmakers on this team yet. Q: Sam of Nigeria - Come on Packer fans! Cliff how can our fans already be worrying about Hawk? My gosh if he hasn't shown anything by mid-season it may be time to worry but at least give the kid an exhibition game to prove himself. As I recall Sterling Sharpe did not catch a pass until his 2nd or 3rd regular season game and Favre wasn't exactly the 2nd coming of Joe Montans when he got into the Tampa Bay game in week 2 of 1992 and that was his SECOND season. So chill out guys and let Hawk find his game. I watched him a lot at Ohio St. and the guy will be good!

A: Cliff Christl - You're right. It's way too early to judge a player. He could be so-so all season and be an all-pro in two or three years. But you expect the fifth pick in the draft to jump out at you on the practice field. I think from day one, everybody knew James Lofton was a stud even though he endured some growing pains. I never thought that of Sharpe. But I also don't think Sharpe was in Lofton's class. He was a very good player, but not a great player. Q: Travis Kloehn of New London, WI - Cliff- Did you happen to read (fellow HOF voter) Paul Zimmerman's CNN/SI article on future HOF'ers? I thought it was pretty interesting and gave a little insight into the selection committee's thought process. I have a couple of questions. First, do you feel that too much stock is placed on players who are on championship teams? Personally, I think there is, particularly at the "non-skill" positions. More than likely, too many 60's Packers (Henry Jordan) made the HOF simply because they were on that team. Conversely, someone like Mike Tingelhoff might never make it. Had the Vikings won one or two of those SB's, I feel he'd have been a lock. Second question: Could you take me inside the room and present to me some of the arguments against Tingelhoff? I'm a huge Packer fan, but his omission seems particularly glaring.

A: Cliff Christl - I could spend a half-hour answering your question. But in a nutshell, I wrote detailed scouting reports for much of Tinglehoff's career where I interviewed scores of coaches and scouts. I never got the impression that anybody thought he was special. He was a good player on a good team who lasted a long time. Is that a Hall of Famer? But I agree that players on non-championship teams and especially lineman are at a disadvantage. Mike Kenn, for example. There was a lineman that most of the scouts and coaches that I talked to thought was special. Q: Danl of Hudson, WI - Are you detecting what the difference is in tone, pace, or focus from the new coaching staff? This would seem to be why a team changes coaches, as in "we need a different direction". Also, does the coaching staff seem to be on the same page with each other?

A: Cliff Christl - I'm not qualified to judge coaches. I think this staff has cut back some on contact, which can be a good thing. I know one observer with a football background told me that he thinks there's less indivdiual teaching. But maybe they're doing more of it in meetings and less on the field. One veteran player told me the other day, they had good coaches before and they did it one way; they've got some good coaches now and they're doing some things a different way. But one wasn't wrong and the other right. And I think what he was saying was that players and luck will determine McCarthy's fate, just as they did Sherman's. I think that's having a pretty realistic handle on the situation. Q: Mike of State College - Hey Cliff, I read two conflicting stories about Favre. Dr. Z called him the most over-rated sure fire hall a famer playing. He argued that Brett was a good QB that played on some great teams. (As an aside, I would have argued that much more strongly about Aikman). At the same time The Sporting News had a brief spot that --- through a comparision of his stats at different times in the game --- argued he is still outstanding and most of his errors and bad plays last year were a function of him taking additional risks to bring the team back from deficits. Thoughts on either story?

A: Cliff Christl - I enjoy reading or listening to Dr. Z's opinions. But I don't always agree and that would be the case here. I find it hard to believe that Favre isn't a sure Hall of Famer. I don't think he has ever been surrounded with great talent and especially in recent years. Remove Favre from the equation and I don't think the '90s and the last six years would have been much different than the '70s and '80s. That's my opinion. At the same time, I don't think Favre is the qb he was five or 10 years ago. He's slipping. How much? It was hard to tell last year when he was playing with the likes of Antonio Chatman. You're playing with an Arena League receiver, he can drag a quarterback down to his level. Q: mr. ed of geneva, NY - i remember the year first round pick jamal reynolds came to his first camp. lots of hubbub when he got here and then i remember seeing very little said about him for about a week of camp. i remember wondering why there was not much being said about him. and then the bad news started trickling out. i haven't heard much about Hawk lately. Ominous?

A: Cliff Christl - I don't remember the hubbub over Reynolds. I don't think he showed much early, either, but I can't tell you everything that was written. What about Hawk? I think he plays a position where it's harder to get an early read. One thing about Reynolds was that he looked so undersized when only the linemen were working together. Hawk isn't big, but that doesn't jump out as a shortcoming at that position. Q: Wade of Orlando - All I here is about how bad the Pack will be this year. I don't get it. We upgraded our Defense with Hawk, Woodson, Hodge etc. Although the offense remains the same, it shouldn't be any worse than last year with Green and Davenport back and upgraded Guard play. If I remember correctly, we were in every game last year except one. The way I see it, we have a shot at 8-8 or 9-7 with our last place schedule. Why are you so down on the Pack?

A: Cliff Christl - Because I base my opinions on what I see on the field, not what I see on paper. Green really hasn't practiced yet. I see nothing from Davenport. Hawk obviously is more talented than Paris Lenon, but he hasn't looked like a big improvement on the practice field as of yet. Maybe it'll come together and this team will surprise because, as I said, it has a lot of solid players. I just don't see any special ones and you can't win without them. But Favre has done it before. Woodson has done it before. Maybe I'm missing something. That's why they play the games. But remember they play those on the field, too, not on that piece of paper of yours where you've written down the names and they look better, so you're assuming they're playing better. Q: Doug G. of Minneapolis - Hodge or Hawk?? From what I have read to date, Hodge seems like a real stud out there on the field while Hawk seems a bit lost in the pro game. Your observation, please. And thank you for the insight.

A: Cliff Christl - I wouldn't call Hodge a real stud. He looks like a good prospect. And so far, he's looked better than Hawk. But they haven't even played an exhibition game yet. Let's not put one player in the Hall of Fame and dismiss the other as another Tony Mandarich just yet. Three weeks from now, we all might hold an opposite view. That's life in the NFL. One day, Therrian Fontenot can look like the worst cornerback they've had in camp in some years; and the next day, he can come out and have a good practice, which was what happened from Saturday to Monday. It's not unusual for coaches and scouts to be high on a player one day and ready to write him off the next. That's life. Q: cory of No. St Paul MN - I can't believe people thank you for answering there questions. You get paid to do that. I will give you the honor of talking to me. Driver will make more plays this year because he has known for three months he's the man. I agree with you AG performance this year must be asewome this year for the pack to win the div. The packers will win the div this year. You're welcome! Don't get cocky Cliff you're no smarter then the rest of us.

A: Cliff Christl - I agree there is no reason to thank me. You're right, I get paid for this. And I'm honored that people seek my opinion. I also think these mid-week and off-season chats draw a lot of excellent questions. And I just try to give candid, honest answers without mincing words. And my response to your prediction would be that I don't see it happening. Q: john h of vancouver - Wow, it looks like there could be 5 rookie starters this year on day 1. Do these guys look good, or do the Packers Gs, LBs, and WRs just look that pathetic? Also, which rookies do you see getting significant playing time this year? Thanks!

A: Cliff Christl - The guards had nobody to beat out. The team had only one receiver after last season. They cleaned house at linebacker. So they were all basically handed jobs. But I think, in time, some of them could be not just good players, but even a little better than that. Q: Bill of Austin - Everyone is raving about Jennings. From the media reports, it appears as though Favre is developing some rapport with him. Based on your observations, will he be the real deal when the bullets fly and he has to read defenses and adjust routes?

A: Cliff Christl - I think he's a player. I think I wrote in the last chat that I thought he could maybe catch 25 balls this year. He might have a chance to do even better. Will he be a Pro Bowl receiver some day? I'm not sure if he has the size and speed to be that good. But he certainly seems to have a special feel for the game, running routes, soft and quick hands. And, so far, the speed of the game hasn't been too much for him. So maybe he even has a higher ceiling than I think. Q: Robby of trenton - Cliff - The Packers lost a young WR with a lot of potential when Murphy was hurt on a kick return. Does Jennings really have to be put in the same position? Find a less valuable commodity and let him get leveled by 250-pounders running down the field at full speed. How about Fergy? It's one way to help get your money's worth from an overpaid underachiever.

A: Cliff Christl - It's football. I don't mean to be insulting. But if that's your mindset, watch bowling. Q: Blog Watcher of Cyberspace - Cliff: I have read your blogs for many years it seems, and I must say I don't recall ever seeing Favre in the Thumbs-down portion once - let alone twice in 10 days. Is it a combination a new system, receivers, etc... or is he in severe decline?

A: Cliff Christl - Good question. There were times in the past where he'd just be firing completions all over the field, one pass after another. I haven't seen that yet this year. I think starting last Friday, he looked better for a stretch. But I think he threw two interceptions again this morning. Q: Dewey of New Mexico - Sounds as though Hawk has not made any eye-popping plays yet, but does his athleticism stand out in practice?

A: Cliff Christl - No. You can tell he's a good athlete, but he doesn't stand above the crowd. Q: Brett of Orlando - Not much has been said of Tollefson and Johnny Jolly. How do they look through the first ten days of camp?

A: Cliff Christl - I've seen a couple flashes from Tollefson. But I think Jason Hunter is faster and a better athlete. Jolly hasn't shown much in the one-on-ones and that's about the only time I've really watched him. I don't see anything to get excited about with either one. But it's early. Q: Charles of La Crosse - With Hodge's Strong play so far do you think it is possible for him to be a starter in the middle or is his best chance to start on the outside?

A: Cliff Christl - I've never seen him on the outside. But he certainly has the potential to be a starting middle linebacker in the NFL and maybe a pretty good one. Q: Al Mancheski of Green Bay - Cliff, in all your years covering the team what would you consider the absolute nadir - the darkest hour - of the Packers?

A: Cliff Christl - Tough question. Maybe the period around the Lofton and Cade trials. Q: Helsinki Hannah of Helsinki Finland - Cliff: Thanks for the chats. Please tell me if Im way off here. I hope I am. This years coach came from one of the two teams worse than the Packers last year, the 49ers. The receiving corps looks atrocious. Ferguson's a stiff and Driver is no more than a serviceable WR, despite his positive attitude and work ethic. The tight ends are horrible. The running backs are decimated by injury and aging fast. (I predict Gado will lead the NFL running backs in fumbles if he starts.) The O line is potentially better than last year because of the two rookie guards but not by much. How's the DEPTH of the OL when, not if. someone gets hurt down there? Special teams, without Longwell, are worse than last year. (Plus, he is kicking for the Vikings which almost guarantees two losses right there!) The D Line is about the same, maybe better because attitude isnt poisoned by lazy fat guys like Cletidus Hunt and Grady Jackson. The secondary is only slightly better. Woodson is an upgrade over Carroll but all else is the same, plus Harris is disgruntled. The only area I see significant upgrade is at linebacker, and thats all based on POTENTIAL. (I think Hodge, not Hawk, will one day end up the bigger star.) Is the defensive improvement, along with a last place schedule and #4 behind center, enough to put them at 8-8, which I would consider a very successful season? What am I missing here? Is it just typical Packer Fan Optimism I keep reading that they may be 8-8 or 9-7 this year? As I see it, this may be the worst team in the NFL right now that the Saints have Brees and Reggie Bush and the Niners got the hot shot tight end. I mean, really, who is worse? Jets?

A: Cliff Christl - Al Harris doesn't act like a disgruntled player. He's a pro on the practice field. Driver, Franks, Tauscher, Clifton, Favre, Kampman, KGB, Barnett. They are all good reliable players who go about their jobs with a real professionalism. And I think there are some young players following suit: Jennings, the two new guards, Wells, Cole and some others. But there are hundreds of players like that in the NFL. So I agree with much of what you said. I was talking to someone on the sidelines this week who has been in football and the league for a number of years and he told me that he saw the same thing I do: Just a lot of bodies and nobody special. His prediction? That the Packers will be even worse this year than last year. Q: Jeff Matchette of Maple Grove, MN - Hi Cliff, What's the plan with the offensive line (awfully thin and young) and how serious is Clifton's injury? I'm not buying that this is a minor deal. Also, any chance of Hodge starting at Mike and Barnett moving to Sam? Keep up the great work! --Jeff

A: Cliff Christl - Let's face it, Clifton had a traumatic leg injury early in his career. I'm not a doctor. But my life experiences tell me that when people suffer serious injuries, it'll eventually catch up to them and cause problems down the line even though they might think they've fully recovered. And Clifton is playing pro football; he's not just some guy on the streets. He may play 16 games this year. But my hunch is that his career may be shortened by the toll that pelvic injury took on other parts of his body. He hit 30 this year. So we'll see. I don't know if they'd move Barnett or not. To this point, I don't think Hodge has shown that he's a better middle linebacker. Until he does, how do you make that move? Do you have a job where you work for somebody else? How would you like it and what do you think it would do for morale at your company, if the boss came up and said, "You're better than this other worker, but we're going to give him your job and move you elsewhere to a position of lesser stature?" How many businesses do you think operate that way? And do you think the NFL is any different? Q: BZ in Buenos Aires of Buenos Aires - Cliff, I always enjoy your objective insights - thanks! What do you consider to be this year's teams strengths? Weaknesses? Do you think that there is a chance that TT still has some roster surprises in store for us before the season gets started? Thanks and regards, BZ.

A: Cliff Christl - Strengths? More good, hard-working, tough players. Weaknesses? No playmakers, no great defenders, no difference makers. Don't look for any surprises. This is the NFL, not your fantasy league. Q: david of los angeles - though it's early, have u seen anything promising from some of the players on the fringe -- kurt campbell, mike hawkins, aj cooper, etc.?

A: Cliff Christl - Hawkins has a lot of talent. Cooper might make a run at a roster spot or a spot on the practice squad. Campbell is hurt and I didn't notice him at all early. I think there are maybe more good young players competing for jobs. That's probably been one of the pluses of this camp. Q: jeff of spencer - is there a good chance that the packers can get another wide reciever before the start of the season such as jerry porter ashlie lalie

A: Cliff Christl - To get Porter, the price figures to be steep. I don't know what kind of camp Lelie is having, but if he's availabe, Denver might want to dump him. How good is he? Q: Eric of Germantown - Cliff, I know its early but how do you see the WR postion breaking down. I wonder if Ferguson's talents will fit McCarthy's offense better with its emphasis on crossing patterns and slants, or am I just being foolishly optimistic? Also how has R. Martin progressed since the pads went on. I cant imagine the Packers keeping Ferguson, Boerigter and Gardner at the cost of anyone who shows any potential. In any case it seems like TE's Martin and Lee might be be featured more simply due to the lack of talent at the WR position as a whole.

A: Cliff Christl - They've been running crossing patterns and slants in Green Bay since Ferguson arrived. He has made two or three catches this camp that have been impressive. He'll also drop one right in his mitts. I remember one night early in camp, they were simulating a two-minute drill with no defense. The first play, Favre throws Ferguson a perfect strike on a little hook pattern. He dropped the ball. I think that was the day before I read about how Ferguson knew he was at a crossroads and ready to prove himself. Gardner has been inconsistent, too. Boerigter has been mostly invisible. Ruvell Martin started slow, then picked it up. He's probably not as talented as Ferguson and Gardner, but he's not that far behind. Just goes to show how mediocre the talent is at that position. Other than Driver and Jennings, I just see bodies. And Driver and Jennings aren't even close to being in Lofton's class. Q: Leo of Minneapolis - Cliff, I've always enjoyed your realistic perspective on the Packers...a hard thing to find in sports or any field of journalism. I've been a giddy Packer fan my whole life and can't help but be optimistic every year at this time. So many years the disappointment of a poor Packer season has hurt...regardless even of how worth it Favre has made watching the Packers for so many years. Can you give me 3 of your top reasons that may help me mellow my optimistic view point. Why can't the Packers be the Rams of 1999?

A: Cliff Christl - If you're over 30, what the heck was there to get giddy about during the Lindy Infante or Forrest Gregg years? Why can't the Packers be the '99 Rams? Well, do you see a Marshall Faulk on the roster? An Isaac Bruce and a Torry Holt? An Orlando Pace? Or how about a Kevin Carter, someone capable of getting 17 sacks this season? When the Packers had James Lofton and nothing else, I'd watch practice and see at least one stallion out there. With Favre having an ordinary camp for him, I don't see a stallion out there this year. The '99 Rams had three or four of them. Q: Otto of Palatine - Thanks for all the camp updates Cliff. Let's get this season started!! My plan is starting to work. Hodge will be in the middle by the end of camp. Poppinga will step up. Then we trade Barnett to Oakland for Porter, or to New Orleans for Stallworth.

A: Cliff Christl - Let's not go overboard on Hodge or Poppinga just yet. I think Hodge, in particular, has a chance to be a good, solid player. But it's only two weeks into camp. Q: Jack of Denver - Has anything Hawk has done jumped out at you where he looks like a dominant LB? After watching the scrimmage,the other top picks all made some plays and looked pretty solid, I struggled to find Hawk on many plays, and the big run by Herron looked to be his fault.

A: Cliff Christl - Haven't seen anything to this point. Q: Crazy Dave of Lunatic Fringe, WI - Hi Cliff, Quite often you write about how there are simply no good players available this time of year to help a team with a weakness. With talk coming out of Oakland that Joey Porter is available via trade, do you view this as an exception to your general rule? If so, with the cap room available, should GBP make a run at him, or would it retard the development of Jennings? Porter has to be a huge upgrade to Ferguson, Gardner or Boerighter. Other than draft picks, is there any player on the team with any trade value that might be expendable (Ferguson, Davenport, one of the DT's, etc.) to package with a mid level pick?

A: Cliff Christl - Sure, there are players available, if a team wants to pay the price. I read somewhere that the Raiders want a No. 1 for Porter. Would you do that? And what if that No. 1 turns out to be the top pick in the draft next spring? How smart a deal would that be? Again, come to grips with reality. What do you think you could get for a Ferguson or a Davenport and a mid-round pick? What's your going to get is what you're giving up. Not much. Q: kwed of dubuque - Cliff--from your early obvservations--whom would you keep if forced to make a choice: al harris vs charles woodson ahmad carroll vs mike hawkins Barnett vs Hawk(I know it's early), but talent is talent consider this year and the future.

A: Cliff Christl - Woodson is more talented than Harris and has made more plays. But that might be because the qbs don't throw much in Harris' direction. He usually has his man blanketed. Carroll and Hawkins are both talented. Carroll probably has had a better camp. From what I've seen, Barnett is as athletic as Hawk if not more so or at least he runs as well if not better. Q: Tim of Batavia - How much (if any ) are you encouraged by Aaron Rodgers progress this preseason so far? Also what is your early prognosis on Hawk - impact player or just another starter?

A: Cliff Christl - I think Rodgers looks much better. He has had some good practices, but he hasn't been consistent. As for Hawk, he hasn't shown much yet. I plan to write about him in tomorrow's camp report. Q: Terry of Chicago - Hi Cliff, Aren't the Packers just one starting OL injury away from disaster? Especially at Tackle. I would expect Thompson to make a trade for a solid back up, wouldn't you? As much as he hates to give away picks, he might have to , no?

A: Cliff Christl - I'm guessing that the personnel staff is working overtime looking at and pursuing possibilities at offensive tackle. But good luck. Where do you think a team is going to find a good left tackle at this point? The bottom line is it's not likely unless they develop someone on the roster. Q: george of san diego - i have a non-packer question, you said there was a quarterback who was playing in high school. I thought it was northern wisconsin, who was hearded at the best young quarterback ever from wisconsin. i would like to keep track this player and would you please reply with his name.... thanks

A: Cliff Christl - George, your question was in first and so even though it's a non-Packer question, Ill answer it. The qbs name was Jeff Donovan and he played at Wauwatosa East. Since I've been naming our all-state football team, going back to the early '90s, he's the best qb prospect I've seen in Wisconsin. But he didn't go to camps and he didn't get an offer from Wisconsin, even though he's five inches taller and has a better arm than his cousin, Tyler, current backup at UW. Thus, Jeff went to UW-Whitewater, where he'll play football and baseball. I believe his dad played some minor league ball and apparently some colleges thought Jeff wanted to pursue baseball. That also might have been a factor in why he didn't get any big-time offers. One footnote here. When I say the best qb prospect in Wisconsin over the past 12-15 years, keep in mind that there haven't been many that have gone on to successful careers at the college level. John Navarre played at Michigan. But most of the others that have gotten NFL tryouts, including Brian Wrobel, who is in the Packers' camp, played at smaller schools. Anyway, Jeff is going to play for a Division III power. I, too, will be interested to see how he does. Did I overrate him? Or did UW miss on another qb? The school doesn't have much of a track record at the position. How many good ones have they gotten out of the state? Bud Keyes maybe? Actually, the last standout was Ron VanderKelen in the early '60s. So because UW snubbed Donovan doesn't tell me much. I don't know if they'd know a good quarterback if they saw one.

[Deputy Nutz]

I guess if Cliff Christl believes in Barnett than this topic is now muted. Good find Harvey

Ironically, he posted that in today's chat--while we were having this discussion. I'm sure you meant that sarcastically, but I like Uncle Cliffy. Although I don't agree with everything he says, I think he often gives a non-homeristic view of the team.

Come on, me sarcastic?

Cliff is all right, but I think he prides himself in not being a homer, I don't really care for that, I think you lack a bit of passion with your writing if you don't care about the outcome.

[red]

his college coaches seemed to think he was a perfect fit for OLB

His college coaches also seemed to think he was a good fit at S. Different scheme. Different level of competition. If we played Shurmur's defense, I'd say move him to OLB. I just think he's a better fit at MLB than OLB in this scheme. Mainly because you need a sideline-to-sideline guy at MLB. I'm guessing Hodge will start getting reps at SLB to challenge Taylor before Barnett is moved outside.

i gotta ask the question. do you really need a MLB that can go sideline to sideline when you have two very capable guys playing outside?

and as the numbers you guys give out show. straight line, hodge is in the same ballpark as barnett

[No Mo Moss]

Money talks. He likes it here. If you offer him a deal he'll stay.

[red]

ok, sideline to sideline

lets crunch some numbers

40 yards= 120 feet

nfl football field= 160 feet wide

now a MLB should be about 80 feet away from the sideline at any time

#56= 4.65 second 40 time (we think)

Hodge= 4.70

#56= 120 feet in 4.65 seconds or 25.806 feet per second

hodge= 25.53 feet per second

so it takes #56 3.1 seconds to get to the sideline from the middle of the field. it takes hodge 3.13 seconds to get there

so in the time it take barnett to get to the sideline (80 feet). hodge would be only about 9 or 10 inches further away (3.1 seconds x 25.53 fps = 79.153 feet)

of course thats just based on flat out speed, not taking into account natural instincts, ability to figure out where the play is going and figure out the best line to get ther, and ability to get around guys in your way

[RashanGary]

Here is the big question that the coaches have to figure out;

What is the best LB trio that we can put on the field.

Maybe they think Hodge is worse than Taylor on the outside so they don't even train HOdge on the outside at all.

Hawk-Barnett-Hodge < Hawk-Barnett-Taylor

But then they might conclude that Barnett is > Taylor on the outside and Hodge is = to or comparable to Barnett on the inside. In that case,

Hawk-Hodge-Barnett > Hawk-Barnett-Taylor

It's not up to us anyway although it appears to me the pro HOdge middle people are arguing that Hodge can only paly one position and he does it at a high level where as Taylor does not play at a high level so it's not replacing Barnett for Hodge but rather replacing Hodge for Taylor in the only way possible. I see alot of logic in this thinking. I don't know that HOdge is better right now than Taylor so it's not something that has to happen right away. Hodge can sneak in as the MLB on short yardage and slowly earn his way in. Poppinga can take Taylors spot in certain blitz packages. There are a bunch of things that can happen that won't force Barnett outside right now. Next year I'm affraid it might be unavoidable. Hodge has to play inside if he's going to play according to the coaches/common sense and Barnett is fleixbile to play outside. IF Hodge falls on his face and cannot play football then this won't be a problem. IF he proves to be the 3rd best LB and has to be starting in the coaches eyes, I'm affraid there is only one way to do that and that is to put him in the middle. Barnett will just have to suck it up. McCArthy doesn't seem willing to play a group that he believes is less productive to placate Barnetts feelings.

[Tony Oday]

This is really a non-issue. Barnett is the MLB this year barring injury.

NEXT year Hodge will play MLB and after Barnett signs the kids-kids-kids are taken care of contract he wont care if he moves outside because he is taken care of. Then we have Pop replacing him at OLB to blitz and he gets his money and takes less punishment.

I still want to see Favre at WR

[MJZiggy]

Harv, Helsinki Hannah makes Wist look like King Kool-Aid.

[wist43]

Harv, Helsinki Hannah makes Wist look like King Kool-Aid.

Who makes me look like what???

Ya gotta cut me slack... I'm wildly optimistic - I'm inching my prediction toward 7-9!!!!

[Bretsky]

McCarthy should sit Nick down immediately and have a serious discussion about the type of attitude that is required to play on this team.

This whiny-ass talk about his free agenct year is ridiculous. When Hodge learns his assignments, he will be a better MLB than Barnett ever thought about being. Get Hodge in there as soon as he's ready and move Barnett to SLB.

If his attitude keeps up, trade him when you can get something for him.

I CAN'T AGREE MORE.

This is MM's first challenge to shape attitudes and anything that could turn into the me mentality.

Talk to Nick
Let him know he's important to GB's success
But let him know it's the coaches job to decide where players play and all decisions are made for the best interests of the TEAM.

A strong coach should be able to get that accross far better then TT massaging Javon Walker's ego along the route to his departure.