Packers expected to cut Hawk when CBA done

[mmmdk]

I think Hawk is gone, simply due to his on-field performance. The film most damning is probably from the reg. season game at Philly. Nice knowin' ya Hawk.

So you're saying you saw it too? From week 1 to 7 Packers were closer to a mediocre team than a SB winning team; Hawk had a slow start, the whole team sucked, yet Hawk emerged as the QB of the defense...and was part of an improbable SB team. Pay Hawk & let "Bitter Twitter" walk!

[ThunderDan]

Next, I still find it difficult to take seriously reports of Barnett and Hawk battling it out for one starting position since they don't play the same position. John Kuhn isn't battling Brandon Jackson for a spot on the team. Morgan Burnett isn't battling Sam Shields for a starting role. And neither is Barnett battling Hawk, unless one of them changes positions first.

Exactly, Hawk plays a different position than Barnett. Barnett could not take over Hawks spot. Barnett would be completely washed out taking on 305 lbs guards running free on him.

I am sure Hawk will not be in GB in 2011 with his original contract. That is all I am fairly certain about.

[ThunderDan]

I hope they cut him just so I won't have to see you guys on his dick anymore. He gets way too much love for the average player he is. Barnett when healthy is clearly the better LB. Now if he can stay healthy is the question. I've been saying for years the only reason he was playing ahead of Bishop was because of his draft status and the money he was making. Bishop finally got on the field this year and proved you haters wrong. If not for Bishop making that shoe string tackle against his college teammate Jackson the Packers don't even make it out of the first round. Yea I'm really going to miss him making tackles from knees while getting push back 2 more yards. 10 million for Hawk? He should be making 2 million at the max.

So rather than having to "see us guys on Hawk's dick anymore" you would rather our team get worse. Hmmmmm..... that makes sense.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Let's suppose Hawk does not agree to a pay decrease for the coming season, the Packers do cut him and he decides to test the market. Do any of you think any other team is gonna pay him $10M in 2011?

$10M wouldn't be the average annual salary of the contract. It would be the lump sum for this year. It all comes down to what the Packers are offering long-term and what Hawk and his agent thinks he can get on the open market. If the Packers are offering $5M/year and Hawk's agent thinks he can get $6M/year, then he'll call the Packers bluff. The Packers will either increase their offer or they'll cut him. Then, we'll find out what he can make on the open market. Like Justin, I don't think Hawk is worth more than $6M/year (although he's better than Brandon thinks he is and he's "clearly" better than Barnett). I have a bad feeling that his agent thinks he can get more. With his name recognition I think he's gone if he hits the open market. Somebody will overpay for him.

[Smidgeon]

Yeah, that was bad that game for him. No sacks or forced fumbles, just like usual for him.

In all seriousness though, Hawk almost never makes big plays. Matthews, Raji, Tramon, Collins, Bishop even, hell throw Shields in there. . . There are guys out there making it happen. Hawk is now and has always been pedestrian, similar to what Peprah has been at Safety.

But if Hawk sets up someone else to make a play, he's done his job. He takes guards on so the other LB (Bishop for the last half of the season) can make the plays. Don't underestimate Hawk doing the dirty work.

Now that being said, could he do better? Absolutely. He isn't amazing and (from what I've heard) doesn't shed blocks well. But he does tie people up and hold his gap. That's good enough to be a starter on a Super Bowl winning team even if he isn't an All-Pro.

[RashanGary]

But if Hawk sets up someone else to make a play, he's done his job. He takes guards on so the other LB (Bishop for the last half of the season) can make the plays. Don't underestimate Hawk doing the dirty work.

Now that being said, could he do better? Absolutely. He isn't amazing and (from what I've heard) doesn't shed blocks well. But he does tie people up and hold his gap. That's good enough to be a starter on a Super Bowl winning team even if he isn't an All-Pro.

Hawk is at the very max end of what a solid player can make (6M per year). We're all respecting his accountability, reliability and leadership. That's worth something, hell, it's worth a lot. But we have an OLB who is the epitome of what great play is all about. Not just rushing the passer but covering as well as Hawk, tackling better than Hawk, shedding blocks better than Hawk, playing faster than Hawk. Take away his benefit of rushing the passer. Take out the sacks. Clay is better in every way other than maybe leadership.

At some point, there is a line drawn for what Hawk is worth. Having Barnett, Bishop and Chillar already on the roster makes him worth even a little less to us.

I think he's going to get 8M per year. He's worth maybe 6M.

[Smidgeon]

Hawk is at the very max end of what a solid player can make (6M per year). We're all respecting his accountability, reliability and leadership. That's worth something, hell, it's worth a lot. But we have an OLB who is the epitome of what great play is all about. Not just rushing the passer but covering as well as Hawk, tackling better than Hawk, shedding blocks better than Hawk, playing faster than Hawk. Take away his benefit of rushing the passer. Take out the sacks. Clay is better in every way other than maybe leadership.

At some point, there is a line drawn for what Hawk is worth. Having Barnett, Bishop and Chillar already on the roster makes him worth even a little less to us.

I think he's going to get 8M per year. He's worth maybe 6M.

I don't disagree with any of that. I would add that--at this point--Hawk probably stacks the point better than Clay. But you are right, Clay does so much more. And when his contract is renegotiated, he'll be payed like that.

[get louder at lambeau]

Hawk almost never makes big plays.

And Ted Thompson is a cheap-ass who will never get us over the hump. Not many people say either of those things anymore, because they were proven wrong. You must have missed it.

Hawk tied for the league lead among all LBs with 3 INTs this year. He was 2nd among all LBs in passes defensed, with 13. He also had a fumble recovery. Over the last two years, no LB has more INTs. This is among ALL LBs- ILB, OLB, 4-3, 3-4, all 300 or so of them, with about 100 starting players.

Too bad he can't cover and almost never makes plays.

[Cheesehead Craig]

It all comes down to what the Packers are offering long-term and what Hawk and his agent thinks he can get on the open market. If the Packers are offering $5M/year and Hawk's agent thinks he can get $6M/year, then he'll call the Packers bluff. The Packers will either increase their offer or they'll cut him. Then, we'll find out what he can make on the open market. Like Justin, I don't think Hawk is worth more than $6M/year (although he's better than Brandon thinks he is and he's "clearly" better than Barnett). I have a bad feeling that his agent thinks he can get more. With his name recognition I think he's gone if he hits the open market. Somebody will overpay for him.

Agree. It all depends on how much Hawk will want. The junk on here that he's JAG is funny. He's more than proven his worth to the defense. Anyone who can't see that is just being willfully blind.

[RashanGary]

And Ted Thompson is a cheap-ass who will never get us over the hump. Not many people say either of those things anymore, because they were proven wrong. You must have missed it.

Hawk tied for the league lead among all LBs with 3 INTs this year. He was 2nd among all LBs in passes defensed, with 13. He also had a fumble recovery. Over the last two years, no LB has more INTs. This is among ALL LBs- ILB, OLB, 4-3, 3-4, all 300 or so of them, with about 100 starting players.

Too bad he can't cover and almost never makes plays.

His interceptions are really good. I'd rather see forced fumbles, big hits and key stops from a LB. Hawk does none of those things.

He's a good player. Some team will pay him like a great one that he's not. We won't match. Hawk's gone.

10M for one year is possible. I think the most likely scenario is that he's gone. If I had to list likelyhood in an order of %, I'd go like this:

50% Hawk is gone (8+M/year for some other team who thinks he's a star, haha)
35% Hawk plays for 10M one year
15% Hawk extends with the Packers

[Smidgeon]

And Ted Thompson is a cheap-ass who will never get us over the hump. Not many people say either of those things anymore, because they were proven wrong. You must have missed it.

Hawk tied for the league lead among all LBs with 3 INTs this year. He was 2nd among all LBs in passes defensed, with 13. He also had a fumble recovery. Over the last two years, no LB has more INTs. This is among ALL LBs- ILB, OLB, 4-3, 3-4, all 300 or so of them, with about 100 starting players.

Too bad he can't cover and almost never makes plays.

Good stats. Thanks.

[RashanGary]

Agree. It all depends on how much Hawk will want. The junk on here that he's JAG is funny. He's more than proven his worth to the defense. Anyone who can't see that is just being willfully blind.

We might have different defintions of Jag. Jag's are guys you can replace with another guy easily. Hawk can be replaced by Barnett (already has been), Chillar (already has been) and Bishop (definitly can be). He's not hard ot replace, there-for he shouldn't get paid a lot of money.

[get louder at lambeau]

Hawk is 27, has never missed a game, is assignment sound, gets INTs and passes defensed like few others, can thump with the big OL guys, called the plays on a Super Bowl winning defense, and his teammates voted for him, along with Woodson, as the defensive team captains for the playoff run.

His Head Coach recently said this about him- "A.J. as a football player and a person, he’s exactly what you’re looking for." I think he's underrated by most fans.

Green Bay -- There are different game captains throughout the year. But for playoffs, the team votes for postseason captains for offense, defense and special teams. This year the Packers chose WR Greg Jennings, QB Aaron Rodgers, LB A.J. Hawk and CB Charles Woodson, and CB/S Jarrett Bush and K Mason Crosby.

It might seem that Clay Matthews or Nick Collins, Pro Bowl players, would be chosen. Or Ryan Pickett, Tramon Williams. Why Hawk?

“He’s one of the leaders on our defense,” said linebacker Desmond Bishop. “He’s not really your typical, vocal, emotional leader but he runs the defense in his own way. And that’s the A.J. way. He’s a quiet guy when he’s out on the field. He directs, he gets the call, he lines everybody up, and I think there’s a quality that he has that everybody looks up to: he never panics. He’s never flustered. He’s always calm, cool and collected. And when you’re out there and the game gets so hectic you need somebody like that to get the play called and get everybody lined up.”

I think the Packers will figure out how to keep him.

[RashanGary]

get louder,

Bart Scott got 8M. Hawk will get at least 8M. While we all like him and want him back, there is a realism that comes into play here. He'd be hurting us more (by taking away money from real stars) than helping us at that way.



It's not that we think he's bad or doesn't play well. It's that he's not great and his name and UFA status is going to get him paid like a superstar. Some teams don't have superstars in the wings to pay, so they buy Hawk. At the end of the day though, that's why we're better. They pay 9M for Hawk, we pay 6M for Collins and 4M for Bishop. We get more for our money and because there is only so much teams can spend, we end up with more overall. That's why we're champs. The way that contract was structured, the way we didn't value Hawk as much heading into the season when we could have restructured him. . . . It's all played out where Hawk is going to hit UFA. Some team will think they're getting a superstar. That's what UFA is all about. The players other teams don't value are there to be had. For the money there are far more disappointments than successes. Congrats to Hawk, he's going to get paid. Too bad for us, we lose our 2nd best ILB (but we do have a couple guys nearly as good behind him.)

Jones, Hawk and Jenkins are three guys we have depth to replace. Keep drafting well and don't let the stars get away. I'm sure we'll get a couple comp picks if we lose these guys. Maybe two 3rds or a 3rd and 4th or something like that.

[Patler]

Assuming Hawk, Bishop and Barnett can be mixed in any combination, it probably comes down to spending an extra $4 million for Hawk, because I doubt Barnett will play the happy soldier and second fiddle to Hawk/Bishop. The likely options are:

Pay Hawk $10 million and dump Barnett's $6 million.
Pay Barnett's $6 million and dump Hawk's $10 million.

For $4 million extra in 2011 TT gets a starting linebacker who had maybe his most valuable year yet in 2010, who never causes a problem even when he isn't happy, who never misses games (so far), who is respected by his team mates and who took charge of the defense on the field and seemingly did very well. TT will also get that same player at a new rate for 2012 and beyond if they can agree on terms, or he will get draft choice compensation in 2013 if they don't reach agreement and Hawk leaves as a free agent in 2012. He will also likely be able to trade Barnett's existing contract at some point before or during the season before the trade deadline, because it has a few years left and is not outrageous.

To save the $4 million, TT gets a starting linebacker who may be flashier but less solid, who can present PR problems with his mouth, and who has an injury history. TT will also get that same player in 2012 at a somewhat higher price; and more likely than not draft choice compensation in 2014 when Barnett is not re-signed after 2012. It will be next to impossible to trade Hawk's $10 million contract, and TT will not likely have time to do anything on a trade before Hawk's salary is guaranteed when the CBA is signed. If this is the route they select, they will get nothing for Hawk.

All-in-all, I think I would prefer paying Hawk.