official: union decertifies

[rbaloha1]

Not in this case they can't. They would be in breach of contract.

What breach? The union does not exist.

[mmmdk]

Just like the players can form their own league, the owners can also REPLACE PLAYERS WITH NEW PLAYERS AND PAY MINIMUM WAGE.

I could beat out Crosby, regardless of a lockout, but I'll take that ticket to kick! WOOT WOOT

[Lurker64]

What breach? The union does not exist.

The contract that Aaron Rodgers has signed is not a contract between the union and the league. It is a contract between Aaron Rodgers and the Green Bay Packers. Even though the union exists, all of the teams and all of the players still exist. The players are now just independent contractors. That does not mean, however, that teams can indiscriminately ignore their contracts. A contract signed by a player which guarantees any amount of money must still be honored by an NFL team to the extent of the guarantee.

So the owners cannot replace all of the players. When they played games with replacement players, that was a strike not a lockout. There is a significant difference.

[rbaloha1]

The contract that Aaron Rodgers has signed is not a contract between the union and the league. It is a contract between Aaron Rodgers and the Green Bay Packers. Even though the union exists, all of the teams and all of the players still exist. The players are now just independent contractors. That does not mean, however, that teams can indiscriminately ignore their contracts. A contract signed by a player which guarantees any amount of money must still be honored by an NFL team to the extent of the guarantee.

So the owners cannot replace all of the players. When they played games with replacement players, that was a strike not a lockout. There is a significant difference.

The point is a band of players could get together and form another union. The owners could negotiate with the new union.

Being an independent contractor does not guarantee anything.

[Lurker64]

Being an independent contractor does not guarantee anything.

Being an independent contractor means that you have signed a contract, and if the other party to the contract violates the terms of that contract then they are in breach of contract. This is almost tautological

[pbmax]

Mark Murphy gave an awesome interview. He's been on all angles. He's been a player rep, he worked for the union after he retired, and now he's with the owners.

He noted several things

He noted the owners offered to provide all audited financials to the playere from 06 when the last agreement went down
He noted the owners were offering several concessions that they would only give up if the 18gm season was agreed to
He noted on the last effort the owners dropped that extended schedule idea for two years while still giving concessions
He noted he was very disappointed the players union walked away from their offer with no counter
He strongly believes that from the get go, the players didn't want an agreemen
He strongly believes the players believe they will do best by rolling the dice, disbanding, and taking this through the legislative process
He sounded sincere, honest, and throughly disappointed in his dealings with the new commander in charge

Link?

[RashanGary]

Mark Murphy gave an awesome interview. He's been on all angles. He's been a player rep, he worked for the union after he retired, and now he's with the owners.

He noted several things

He noted the owners offered to provide all audited financials to the playere from 06 when the last agreement went down
He noted the owners were offering several concessions that they would only give up if the 18gm season was agreed to
He noted on the last effort the owners dropped that extended schedule idea for two years while still giving concessions
He noted he was very disappointed the players union walked away from their offer with no counter
He strongly believes that from the get go, the players didn't want an agreemen
He strongly believes the players believe they will do best by rolling the dice, disbanding, and taking this through the legislative process
He sounded sincere, honest, and throughly disappointed in his dealings with the new commander in charge

This is interesting. For some reason I trust Mark Murphy more than Jones or Richardson.

[mraynrand]

Being an independent contractor means that you have signed a contract, and if the other party to the contract violates the terms of that contract then they are in breach of contract. This is almost tautological

When Rodgers fails to show for his first OTA, he is in breach of contract, no? The Packers can then fire him and replace him with Jerry Babb - allowing any other team to sign Rodgers. Is suspect the Packers will put up with his delinquency.

[pbmax]

When Rodgers fails to show for his first OTA, he is in breach of contract, no? The Packers can then fire him and replace him with Jerry Babb - allowing any other team to sign Rodgers. Is suspect the Packers will put up with his delinquency.

He is locked out, so he could show up, but he will be waiting outside the gate in full uniform.

[pbmax]

Here is the Murphy interview from Florio on PFT Live:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/15/mark-murphy-interview-transcript/

[rbaloha1]

Being an independent contractor means that you have signed a contract, and if the other party to the contract violates the terms of that contract then they are in breach of contract. This is almost tautological

What terms are being violated when there is a lockout?

[Lurker64]

What terms are being violated when there is a lockout?

Are you moving the goalpost here, or do you grant my earlier point that teams cannot simply acquire all new players during a lockout? The fact that they can't simply get all new players during a lockout is due to the fact that under federal labor law, you may only hire temporarly replacement workers. One does not prove to the players that their services are fungible when they can only be replaced briefly.

But specifically, the contract terms that would be violated in a lockout would be if the legal system agrees that the decertification is not a sham and allows to to go through, then it would be illegal to lock out non-union labor. It's a clear breach of anti-trust for one thing, since 32 teams have collectively decided to not allow any of their employees to work, and moreover it's the exact same contract breach when you see a team locking a player out of their training facility when they plan to trade/cut him so that he doesn't "injure" himself. Happened with Steve McNair a few years back.

[rbaloha1]

Are you moving the goalpost here, or do you grant my earlier point that teams cannot simply acquire all new players during a lockout? The fact that they can't simply get all new players during a lockout is due to the fact that under federal labor law, you may only hire temporarly replacement workers. One does not prove to the players that their services are fungible when they can only be replaced briefly.

But specifically, the contract terms that would be violated in a lockout would be if the legal system agrees that the decertification is not a sham and allows to to go through, then it would be illegal to lock out non-union labor. It's a clear breach of anti-trust for one thing, since 32 teams have collectively decided to not allow any of their employees to work, and moreover it's the exact same contract breach when you see a team locking a player out of their training facility when they plan to trade/cut him so that he doesn't "injure" himself. Happened with Steve McNair a few years back.

Call it what you want. The owners can hire "temporary" (scabs) for the next season and make huge profits since they do not have to "overpay" the greedy previous NFLPA players.

[swede]

It may be time for the Packerrats to decertify and take Joe to court. We do all the work. He gets all the profits. Not fair.

[Lurker64]

Call it what you want. The owners can hire "temporary" (scabs) for the next season and make huge profits since they do not have to "overpay" the greedy previous NFLPA players.

It's not the same thing though as hiring replacements during a strike. You hire replacements during a strike because you hope to break the union by encouraging people to cross the picket lines. During a lockout, you hire replacements because you want to maintain production... there's no picket line to cross because all of the players are locked out. So the league has nothing to gain by doing it.