Johnny Jolly gets probation

[Tarlam!]

Jolly has been suspended for 16 games, and counting.

That would be 19 games and counting, plus being denied his NFCC ring and far worse, his Super Bowl ring = a full season. It was bad enough financially that he was suspended, but mentally, it must have been horrible to see your team mates lift the Lombardi knowing that all you did was swallow cough syrup.

[Patler]

Right or wrong, the league has made it clear that it makes its own determinations irrespective of the legal outcome.

True, but before his NFL suspension Jolly violated his parole making it two separate offenses, the second negating any chance he had at arguing that he learned his lesson. Also, I thought it wasn't clear whether there could have also been in view of a failed drug test (which might not have been reported for the first offense).

And Roethlisberger was tied to two separate incidents. The last one happened almost a year after the civil suit was filed in the first one. The NFL put their investigation of the first one on hold, because there was not a criminal charge. Yet Roethlisberger put himself in an even worse situation the second time, a year later.

Roethlisberger is linked to two separate allegations of sexual assault, and gets suspended for 4 games.
Johnny Jolly has codeine in his vehicles on two occasions, and is suspended for a year and counting.

It doesn't make sense.

[sharpe1027]

And Roethlisberger was tied to two separate incidents. The last one happened almost a year after the civil suit was filed in the first one. The NFL put their investigation of the first one on hold, because there was not a criminal charge. Yet Roethlisberger put himself in an even worse situation the second time, a year later.

Roethlisberger is linked to two separate allegations of sexual assault, and gets suspended for 4 games.
Johnny Jolly has codeine in his vehicles on two occasions, and is suspended for a year and counting.

It doesn't make sense.

I'm not saying the standard is applied equally, because I'm not sure what evidence they were looking at; however, there are some factors that might explain some of the differences.

In Roth's situation there was a question as to whether or not he did anything illegal. Even with all the facts it is likely that the NFL decided it could not suspend him based upon the truth of the allegations, rather they suspended him on the general conduct (e.g., contributing to underage drinking and poor judgement in where to have sex). With Jolly on the other hand, there is no dispute that he broke the law by violating the terms of his probation. Plus, he was driving a car with illegal drugs in an open container and I thought it wasn't clear whether there could have also been a failed drug test (which might not have been publicly reported).

It might also have been that Jolly had represented to the NFL that he would be on the straight and narrow when looking for a lesser suspension, and when he broke the terms of his parole the NFL came down hard because of that representation.

IDK. I would think that there were additional factors involved, because otherwise you are correct that it doesn't make much sense.

[red]

if the distribution thing was dropped like you said patler then goodell really dropped the ball the first time around.

i think he was found in a car with 100's of mg's of codiene. and it sounded like a lot at the time. well i got like 3000 mg's of vike an a few 100 mg's of oxy laying around. all prescribed for when i need it, but still. also i think we figured out that they were counting the full drink in that amount of mg's. sp it could of been like one 500 mg pill of codine in a bunch of dr. pepper, right?

if thats the case then godell fuck up big time IMO, he needs to reinstate jolly asap even despite the latest arrest.

to me this is like a guy getting suspended for a year for getting caught with a joint. thats horse shit

i've said for awhile that goddell needs to go, the guy is horrible. a guy that rapes multiple girls gets a 4 game suspention when he should be castrated and hung imo. jolly gets high and he might get kicked out of the league

now if he was caught with like a whole duffle bag full of codine, well thats a little different.

[red]

That would be 19 games and counting, plus being denied his NFCC ring and far worse, his Super Bowl ring = a full season. It was bad enough financially that he was suspended, but mentally, it must have been horrible to see your team mates lift the Lombardi knowing that all you did was swallow cough syrup.

thats very true tar. he was robbed of what might be the greatest moment of his life (besides having kids)

[Guiness]

if the distribution thing was dropped like you said patler then goodell really dropped the ball the first time around.

i think he was found in a car with 100's of mg's of codiene. and it sounded like a lot at the time. well i got like 3000 mg's of vike an a few 100 mg's of oxy laying around. all prescribed for when i need it, but still. also i think we figured out that they were counting the full drink in that amount of mg's. sp it could of been like one 500 mg pill of codine in a bunch of dr. pepper, right?

if thats the case then godell fuck up big time IMO, he needs to reinstate jolly asap even despite the latest arrest.

to me this is like a guy getting suspended for a year for getting caught with a joint. thats horse shit

i've said for awhile that goddell needs to go, the guy is horrible. a guy that rapes multiple girls gets a 4 game suspention when he should be castrated and hung imo. jolly gets high and he might get kicked out of the league

now if he was caught with like a whole duffle bag full of codine, well thats a little different.

See, that's where the uncertainty was - in the amounts. Was it mg or g? when the initial report came out, it said grams, and the reported amount was like 600 grams in a cup (the charge ended up being "over 200grams"). Obviously, 600 grams wouldn't fit in a cup, so either there was a stash of it in the trunk, or the officer made a mistake.

Just for reference, a Tylenol 3 has 30mg of codeine. To collect 200 grams, you'd need 6500 pills!

There was a thread about this at the time, I'm pretty sure Patler was involved in it as well. I think the general agreement was that there had to be a lot more to it than simply being caught with some in a cup, that there were going to be ties to a distribution ring, etc. Goodell (over) reacted to that, and tossed the guy out before there was anything solid. A few years later, nothing materialized, and it becomes obvious there's no reason this guy should not be back.

[get louder at lambeau]

See, that's where the uncertainty was - in the amounts. Was it mg or g? when the initial report came out, it said grams, and the reported amount was like 600 grams in a cup (the charge ended up being "over 200grams"). Obviously, 600 grams wouldn't fit in a cup, so either there was a stash of it in the trunk, or the officer made a mistake.

A 20 oz soda is about 600 grams.

[Guiness]

A 20 oz soda is about 600 grams.

Have to love the imperial system.

I believe you're confusing the two oz measurements (fluid vs weight), not to mention density.

20 fluid oz of water or soda would be 600g. Take another powder, flour, 600g if about 40 fluid oz. I couldn't get any information on the density of codeine, so maybe less. Granted, that will still fit in a 2L pop bottle.

However, and this is where the police's testing equipment came into play...what was the concentration? Pure codeine is a white powder. That's not what he had in the glass, it was mixed with some other things. What was the concentration? 50%? I doubt it. 10%? More likely. So his 20oz can could've had 2 fl oz of codeine. That's about 30 grams.

So, if he had 200g of codeine, as red said above, it was likely in a duffel bag. Hence the quote of 6,500 tylenol 3's.

Did he have a source for pure, pharmaceutical grade codeine, and he was carrying a brick of it? I think that's what many of us thought was possible when the charges came out.

[red]

Have to love the imperial system.

I believe you're confusing the two oz measurements (fluid vs weight), not to mention density.

20 fluid oz of water or soda would be 600g. Take another powder, flour, 600g if about 40 fluid oz. I couldn't get any information on the density of codeine, so maybe less. Granted, that will still fit in a 2L pop bottle.

However, and this is where the police's testing equipment came into play...what was the concentration? Pure codeine is a white powder. That's not what he had in the glass, it was mixed with some other things. What was the concentration? 50%? I doubt it. 10%? More likely. So his 20oz can could've had 2 fl oz of codeine. That's about 30 grams.

So, if he had 200g of codeine, as red said above, it was likely in a duffel bag. Hence the quote of 6,500 tylenol 3's.

Did he have a source for pure, pharmaceutical grade codeine, and he was carrying a brick of it? I think that's what many of us thought was possible when the charges came out.

i've tried looking up the whole deal from the first arrest. from what i can find, he was pulled over for loud music. the cops looked in the car and saw a 20 oz opened bottle of dr. pepper with a purple tint to it, and two styrofoam cups with ice in them. the cops said the cups smelled like codiene, WTF does that smell like?

also, i looked up how to make purple drank. you take a certain kind of prescribed couch syrup and add 2-4 oz into a 20 soft drink. so he couldn't have been caught with a shitload of pills.

that all leads me to believe that jolly was caught with a 20 bottle of pop with maybe 4 liquid ounces of this cough syrup in it, and the 20 oz of pop is the 600 grams of not codiene but 600 grams of purple drank.

which like i said, if thats the case, to me thats not as bad as being caught with a half smoked joint. and the one year plus ban is completely insane

[get louder at lambeau]

Have to love the imperial system.

I believe you're confusing the two oz measurements (fluid vs weight), not to mention density.

20 fluid oz of water or soda would be 600g.

No problem with the measurement systems, I was confused by what you were trying to say. It has always been 600 grams of a liquid codeine cough syrup and soda mixed, as far as everything I remember reading. I just didn't follow your jump through the rabbit hole to where it somehow became 100% pure codeine powder in that cup. It was always cough syrup, and about 600 grams of liquid syrup would be about a 20 oz. bottle, as I said.

I have no idea what the Texas legal measurements of codeine in "purple drank" as reported are based on. I'm not sure if any of us do. They could be based on quantity of cough syrup in it's normal form at it's normal concentration as opposed to quantity of pure codeine for all I (we?) know. I would think it would be much more complicated to try to break it down into base compounds before measuring it, so I would guess it's based on quantity of standard use codeine syrup.

[Guiness]

No problem with the measurement systems, I was confused by what you were trying to say. It has always been 600 grams of a liquid codeine cough syrup and soda mixed, as far as everything I remember reading. I just didn't follow your jump through the rabbit hole to where it somehow became 100% pure codeine powder in that cup. It was always cough syrup, and about 600 grams of liquid syrup would be about a 20 oz. bottle, as I said.

I have no idea what the Texas legal measurements of codeine in "purple drank" as reported are based on. I'm not sure if any of us do. They could be based on quantity of cough syrup in it's normal form at it's normal concentration as opposed to quantity of pure codeine for all I (we?) know. I would think it would be much more complicated to try to break it down into base compounds before measuring it, so I would guess it's based on quantity of standard use codeine syrup.

Fair enough, and that's where the confusion comes from.

Cough syrup in it's normal form? I never assumed that, I figured it has to be some sort of a reasonable concentration. I just checked, and have 3 bottles of various configurations of Robitussin in my cubboard. Guess what, Robitussin AC contains codeine, although I don't know how much. They're 150ml each. 1ml is about equal to 1g. So I've got 450g of codeine here?

That's ridiculous, and that's also what I assume the officer decided in this situation. The charge was for over 200g of codeine, not 200g of a solution containing some amount of codeine. Which is why they had to stay the charges while they got equipment to measure just how much damn codeine was there.

edit: just thought of something else - at Scout camp, any kids that are taking medication of any sort have to give it to the scout leader. I've seen him in possession of 10-12 bottles. So he's got 1500g of codeine? lol

[Guiness]

i've tried looking up the whole deal from the first arrest. from what i can find, he was pulled over for loud music. the cops looked in the car and saw a 20 oz opened bottle of dr. pepper with a purple tint to it, and two styrofoam cups with ice in them. the cops said the cups smelled like codiene, WTF does that smell like?

smells like teen spirit? *ducks*

also, i looked up how to make purple drank. you take a certain kind of prescribed couch syrup and add 2-4 oz into a 20 soft drink. so he couldn't have been caught with a shitload of pills.

that all leads me to believe that jolly was caught with a 20 bottle of pop with maybe 4 liquid ounces of this cough syrup in it, and the 20 oz of pop is the 600 grams of not codiene but 600 grams of purple drank.

which like i said, if thats the case, to me thats not as bad as being caught with a half smoked joint. and the one year plus ban is completely insane

That's exactly what I think happened, and that's why all this has seemed almost unbelievable from the start. I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop, to find out he used his signing bonus to underwrite his buddies set up a distribution ring or something, but it never came.

[swede]

[th87]

- the legal penalty from the first one is very mild, even following his guilty plea and the second incident. Jolly has been suspended for a year for an incident that netted him probation and mandatory rehab?

If I recall correctly, Jolly was suspended on the basis of the substance abuse policy - not the personal conduct policy. Wasn't there some rumor that he had failed an astounding number of drug tests?

[th87]

I think I also remember that in Texas, if a banned substance is diluted in a mixture, they charge you as though the banned substance formed the entirety of the mixture. That is, if Jolly's bottle contained 200g of Purple Drank (Sprite + promethazine cough syrup containing some codeine + Jolly Rancher), they would charge him as though the bottle was pure codeine.

This law was enacted so that cocaine dealers couldn't get off on dealing impure cocaine. To attempt to go after Jolly in this way reeks of an overzealous prosecutor trying to make a name for him/herself.