TT, OL, and the 3-Cone Drill.

[Tarlam!]

I'm just pointing out that it seems ridiculous to blame going to JUCO as a reason to "fall under the radar" once the transition to a football powerhause has been successfully negotiated. There's also a DL with question marks, because he might be a one-year wonder, but he'll still go top 10 according to the draftniks.

Again, with all due respect to JH's scouting prowess, I don't buy the reasoning that he's flying under the radar due to his JUCO roots.

What seemed to hurt Rodgers' stock coming out was the fact that he was a Tedford QB, IIRC. But he was still on some boards as #1 overall. Certainly not under the radar!

[RashanGary]

Rodgers came out and played some big games on National TV and played out of his mind. Just like him playing out of his mind in the playoffs, big games = big recognition. OT's. . . I think they're more likely to fly under the radar if they're not the classic 5 star recruit. Those guys get brought up with hype all around their names. Carpenter had no hype. Just like Tramon Williams coming in undrafted, it takes twice as long or more to earn a name when you come up the hard way.

You don't have to buy it. Time will prove it

Nobody was buying Alualu from me last year and he went from late 2nd in all the media reports to top 10 pick. I picked him #22 or 23'd last year to the Eagles in our mock and he was a classic 2nd-3rd round prospect when I did that.

[Bretsky]

I'm not buying into the JUCO argument here. The dude played in Alabama last year. Every scout in the NFL has been watching him for a long time at that school, even if it was while they were scouting somebody else on Saban's team. Lots of pros on that squad.

[RashanGary]

I do think he's under the media radar. I think when Alabama brings in a JUCO player it's seen as a stopgap, same way undrafted players are seen as roster fodder.

The coaches voted him tops in the SEC. He had an excellent combine/proday. I have no doubt that the scouts and GM's know who he is. I'm definitely with you guys there, but he's under the radar of the media.


Same way I don't think Tramon was ever under the radar of his coaches and teammates, but he was nothing more than a solid nickle to fans (perception)

[Lurker64]

Nobody on the Alabama roster is under the radar.

[RashanGary]

Nobody on the Alabama roster is under the radar.

We'll see I guess. I try to find the guy or two predicted by the media types to go in the 2nd that are much better than where the media is slotting them. My guys last year both proved right and I think you might have even doubted me then. This year my guy is Carpenter. I'm standing by it and can't wait to see where he's picked.

[Bretsky]

I think most sites are rating Carpenter as the next best OT not projected into round one, right ?

[Lurker64]

We'll see I guess. I try to find the guy or two predicted by the media types to go in the 2nd that are much better than where the media is slotting them. My guys last year both proved right and I think you might have even doubted me then. This year my guy is Carpenter. I'm standing by it and can't wait to see where he's picked.

Well, the reason that he may be underhyped by the media and overhyped by you is that his numbers are better than his tape, and everybody in the media is a tape guy not a numbers guy.

Watching Alabama, he really didn't stand out on film.

I think most sites are rating Carpenter as the next best OT not projected into round one, right ?

I have him seventh among the OTs, behind Smith, Carimi, Sherrod, Ijalana, Castonzo and Solder, and in terms of "OL" he's tenth behind the guys listed, Pouncey, Watkins, and Wisnieski. He's about even with Marcus Gilbert on tape alone, but Gilbert's not a TT pick. I'm okay with Carpenter at #64 though.

[Tarlam!]

JH, I don't believe I've seen anyone here disagree with your prognosis that he will be good or better at the next level. Nor has anyone disagreed that he's probably going in round one. Shivers, it's a crap shoot, as everybody knows. If he does, indeed, bust, so what? No flies on you, right? Players bust all the time and they're picked by pro's.

The dissent is with the claim that he's under the radar 'cause he came from JUCO from what I'm reading. That just doesn't add up.

[RashanGary]

I think most sites are rating Carpenter as the next best OT not projected into round one, right ?

NFL Draftscout has him as the #57 player, after Ijalana and Cannon.
Draftcountdown has him at #70
Nationalfootball post has him at #73

The only one who has him near the top 40 is the one I trust the most for draft info, Bob McGinn. But that just came out last night and I've been pimping my guy for longer than that. It sort of verified it for me though. Most places think 2nd-3rd round. I think he'll fly up on Thursday.

[Bretsky]

ok...just so I can be a disagreeer................I don't think he's going round one.

But I 'd be fine with him going to GB there

[RashanGary]

Well, the reason that he may be underhyped by the media and overhyped by you is that his numbers are better than his tape, and everybody in the media is a tape guy not a numbers guy.

Watching Alabama, he really didn't stand out on film.

I know where you get your info, the national football post. They have some connections, but like Ted Thompson said a few days ago, "All of those people writing about the draft, they don't know what they're talking about because I'm supposed to be good at this and I don't know what they think they know."

Last year nationalfootballpost had Alualu rated around 50. He went #10. If they do watch tape, they don't know what they're doing. They're media retards.

The coaches in the SEC though, they know what good is better than your media people. Bill Polian as sited in Bob McGinn's draft piece on the OL, he knows more too.

We'll see, I have things I trust (coaches vote for all conference, athletic ability, Bob McGinn's draft piece loaded with quotes from t0p level execs) and you have things you trust (wanna be scouts working for nationalfootballpost).

I'm not saying I know more than anyone else, I'm saying I'm assigning the right amount of weight the actual important information available to us.


And the nationalfootball post has Ijalana rated higher than most places. They probably have a scout somewhere who leaked them some info, because I agree, Ijalana's resume is pretty sweet. The other media seem wrong on him. I think McGinn had him high too.

If media places have a write up on a player, we should tear it up and piss on it. The SEC coaches know far more than that website.

[Lurker64]

Well, in the interest of full information (though shouldn't we just make a Carpenter thread for this), let's post some scouting reports, here are three:

Bob McGinn

"He has pretty good feet and he's had great coaching," Polian said, referring to Crimson Tide O-line coach Joe Pendry. "I don't see him in the same light as the other (tackles) but I could be wrong on that." Played two years in junior college and then started two years at LT for coach Nick Saban. "He is truly one of the better athletes for the position," one scout said. "He's just a different guy when it goes from one-on-one drills to team. He really struggles with things like counter-rushes. People cross his face. He's slow to react. If somebody continues to invest time and effort he'll end up being a good player." Scored 20 on the Wonderlic, one above the NFL average, but the learning questions remain widespread. "When I hear people say second round my palms get sweaty," another scout said. "The problem with him is it takes him a week to get the game plan down. So that means he's not really a versatile tackle-guard combo guy because he can't learn but one spot at a time."

ESPN Scouts Inc
(1 is exceptional, 2 above average, 3 average, 4 below average, 5 is marginal)

Production: 2
2007-08: Started career at Coffeyville (KS) Community College. 2009: Transferred to Alabama and started all 14 games at left tackle. 2010: Started every game at left tackle.

Height-Weight-Speed: 1
Excellent blend of height, weight and top-end speed for a guard prospect.

Durability: 1
Hindered by an ankle injury early on in the 2010 season but started all 27 games of two-year career at Alabama.

Intangibles: 2
Signed with Iowa State as a high school senior and had to bounce back from early academic struggles to make it to the FBS level. Recipient of the Paul Crane Offensive Lineman Award in spring of 2010. Recipient of the Bart Starr Most Improved Player Award following 2009 spring practices.

Pass Protection: 2
Makes it difficult for defenders' to get into frame. Upper body strength is just average in the weight room but compact punch and sound hand placement. Active hands and quickly resets when they get knocked down. Bit of a waist bender but still strong at the top of set and can anchor against bull rushers. Marginal arm length for a tackle prospect and would have a harder time protecting the edge at the NFL level. Gets caught over setting to the outside and not agile enough to recover. However, projects as an excellent pass blocker at guard. Arm length is slightly above average for a guard prospect and can protect the B-gap at the next level. Above average balance and can stay in front of rusher in tighter space.

Run Blocking: 2
Quick first step and gets into sound position more times than not. Above average lateral mobility for size. Can hook/seal the edge and flashes ability to scoop 3-technique at tackle. Uses defenders' momentum against them and can wash them down the line of scrimmage. Could take better angles to downfield blocks but made strides in this area as a senior. Smooth climbing up to the second level, above average body control in space and can cover linebackers. Drive legs once locked on and flashes the ability to move defenders off the ball but inconsistent in this area. Plays to high and lower body strength may need to improve.

Awareness: 3
Lacks ideal instincts but made strides in this area as a senior. Quicker to recognize and pick up line stunts. Didn't overreact to pre-snap movement. Makes sound decisions when combination blocking up to the second level and quickly locates assignment when pulls but has some problems locating second level assignments as zone blocker.

Toughness: 2
Blocks through the whistle and can get under defenders' skin. Flashes a mean streak and not just a wall-off blocker but not a traditional mauler that brings it on every down either.

NFP

Possesses good overall thickness in his lower half with decent initial body control off the snap. Showcases average range when asked to reach defenders off his frame in the run game, but has the body control to drop his pad level and get a chip on them off the line on runs away from his frame. Looks natural in sealing opposing linemen on runs away from his frame. However, he lacks the type of coordination to cleanly chop down linemen on contact. Seems a lot more comfortable when asked to chip on his man at the line and get down the field in the screen game. Has a tendency to lumber a bit, but possesses good balance into contact and consistently gets his hands on defenders in space.

Seems too overextended with his footwork initially off the snap, although he does do a nice job quickly getting off the ball and reaching the edge vs. the speed rush. He allows his base to get too overextended on his initial kick step, which causes him to get too upright on contact and struggles when asked to re-direct back inside. Also, has a tendency to stop moving his feet on the edge after his initial kick-step. And although he does do a nice job extending his long arms and using his length to push defenders past the pocket, he simply isn't much of a real Velcro player and fails to consistently stay on blocks. Possesses a good anchor though vs. the bull rush and when he keeps his base down the guy is tough to move.

Impression: There is some untapped potential to his game because of his initial range off the edge. However, he plays too high at times and lacks any kind of pop in the run game as an in-line guy. Therefore, you won't be able to run behind him in the NFL, and although he is a decent athlete with good anchor, looks more like a fringe NFL starter to me.

I liked Alualu in the first round last year too, but I just don't see Carpenter as worth any pick before #64. That whole "Takes him a week to get the game plan down" comment from an NFL Scout, scares the heck out of me. I watched him live in several games, and he just didn't stand out. The more I read about him the more I get "the black Daryn Colledge."

[RashanGary]

We'll see how it all shakes out, if I'm wrong, I take a step back and admit I don't know what I don't know (which is the truth anyway).


It's weird, I think I have this little knack for sorting information and coming to good conclusions. Each year I hit these major draft realities before they happen and I never get it out there before hand. This year, I'm getting my opinion out there so in a few days I see if I hit another one.

[bobblehead]

JH, I don't believe I've seen anyone here disagree with your prognosis that he will be good or better at the next level. Nor has anyone disagreed that he's probably going in round one. Shivers, it's a crap shoot, as everybody knows. If he does, indeed, bust, so what? No flies on you, right? Players bust all the time and they're picked by pro's.

The dissent is with the claim that he's under the radar 'cause he came from JUCO from what I'm reading. That just doesn't add up.

Actually, that is ONE reason JH said he was under the radar OF THE MEDIA. That is why media whores who do mock drafts have him in the second. He is actually PREDICTING the guy goes in the first, so he isn't claiming he is under the radar of the scouts.

He could be way off, but no one seems to be reading what he is actually saying. Disagree, fine, but understand his point. The JUCO thing only gave him a two season exposure, and no hype coming in. The media is all about hype.