Second Draft Final Round: (#1) Reed vs. (#2) Ijalana

[Lurker64]

I would be so very surprised if we actually picked ijalana. He's projected to go late in the second round. At least with reed he's considered an early second rounder.

Depends on whose projections you read. Wes Bunting at NFP has him as the 27th best prospect and mocks him 32 to the Packers, while ESPN has him 58th and Rob Rang of NFLDS has him 57th.

Correspondingly, Rob Rang has Reed as the 39th best prospect, Wes Bunting has him as the 83rd best prospect, and ESPN has him 30th.

What doesn't matter so much is what the pundits think, but what the Packers think.

[Smeefers]

Depends on whose projections you read. Wes Bunting at NFP has him as the 27th best prospect and mocks him 32 to the Packers, while ESPN has him 58th and Rob Rang of NFLDS has him 57th.

Correspondingly, Rob Rang has Reed as the 39th best prospect, Wes Bunting has him as the 83rd best prospect, and ESPN has him 30th.

What doesn't matter so much is what the pundits think, but what the Packers think.

Oh, I agree that it doesn't matter what the pundits think. In TT I trust. For every JH he picks up, he gets 5 stud players. The problem is that it's such a crap shoot at 32.

[3irty1]

I'm not talking about Frank Zombo coming out of college but rather now. I think we can all agree that he was a steal as a UFA. Looking at Reeds workout numbers, he seems like a stud until you see his this:

30.5" vertical
9'05" broad jump

The jump is meant to test explosiveness. I think we can all agree that explosiveness is pretty important for a pass rusher and Brooks Reed has none. I Liken these numbers to a corner that ran the 40 yard dash in 5 seconds. Combine this with the concerns about him in coverage and I'm not convinced he's an upgrade over what we've got with Zombo and Jones. Not a major one anyways. I don't hate him as a prospect, I just feel that he's a 3rd or 4th rounder because of his kick ass motor. Lets not blow his college production out of proportion. He wasn't even the best DE on his team.

[Lurker64]

I'm not talking about Frank Zombo coming out of college but rather now. I think we can all agree that he was a steal as a UFA. Looking at Reeds workout numbers, he seems like a stud until you see his this:

30.5" vertical
9'05" broad jump

The jump is meant to test explosiveness. I think we can all agree that explosiveness is pretty important for a pass rusher and Brooks Reed has none. I Liken these numbers to a corner that ran the 40 yard dash in 5 seconds. Combine this with the concerns about him in coverage and I'm not convinced he's an upgrade over what we've got with Zombo and Jones. Not a major one anyways. I don't hate him as a prospect, I just feel that he's a 3rd or 4th rounder because of his kick ass motor. Lets not blow his college production out of proportion. He wasn't even the best DE on his team.

For reference.

Clay Matthews
Vert: 35 1/2"
Broad: 10'01"

Frank Zombo
Vert: 35 1/2"
Broad: 10'02"

Brad Jones:
Vert 33"
Broad: 09'11"

Brady Poppinga:
Vert: 35 1/2"
Broad: 09'02"

(Dontay Moch:
Vert: 42" (!)
Broad: 10'08" (!))

Though to be fair:

You don’t have to be the greatest athlete. I’m talking from experience. I was not the most athletic outside linebacker to play. But I was physical. I was hard-nosed. I had a motor. And I was smart. I studied. I knew where I needed to be and I knew where my help was. I knew what leverage to use. I knew on the other side what they were trying to do. You do have to have some things. You have to be able to back pedal and go backwards. You don’t have to great at it, but you have to have some functional ability. But the No. 1 thing is the physicality. You can get caught up in all the measurables—40 yard dash, broad jump, shuttle. It boils down to are they physical and are they relentless? Are they playing with passion?

[Smidgeon]

Oh, I agree that it doesn't matter what the pundits think. In TT I trust. For every Brian Brohm he picks up, he gets 5 stud players. The problem is that it's such a crap shoot at 32.

Fixed. Justin Harrell had talent.

[Bretsky]

I'm not talking about Frank Zombo coming out of college but rather now. I think we can all agree that he was a steal as a UFA. Looking at Reeds workout numbers, he seems like a stud until you see his this:

30.5" vertical
9'05" broad jump

The jump is meant to test explosiveness. I think we can all agree that explosiveness is pretty important for a pass rusher and Brooks Reed has none. I Liken these numbers to a corner that ran the 40 yard dash in 5 seconds. Combine this with the concerns about him in coverage and I'm not convinced he's an upgrade over what we've got with Zombo and Jones. Not a major one anyways. I don't hate him as a prospect, I just feel that he's a 3rd or 4th rounder because of his kick ass motor. Lets not blow his college production out of proportion. He wasn't even the best DE on his team.

So you are downgrading his status as somebody equivalent to Frank Zombo because of his jump ? That seems like you are using a small amount of the overall data on this player to equate him with somebody not drafted. Likewise, I could use some stats to claim his greatness. Brooks Reed had the fastest 10-yard split at the Combine out of all the defensive linemen, and I'm sure we can all agree that time is an important factor in looking at his ability as a pass rusher. His 1.54 was only 0.05 slower than Clay Matthews' amazing time.

Does it matter if he was the best DE on his team ? Was Clay Matthews the best LB for USC ? just saying............

Not saying he's going to be a star, but if a team nabbed him in round one or two I think they are getting a very worthy prospect with a lot more upside than Frank Zombo.

And looking at Kevin Green's quote..........that describes Reed

You don’t have to be the greatest athlete. I’m talking from experience. I was not the most athletic outside linebacker to play. But I was physical. I was hard-nosed. I had a motor. And I was smart. I studied. I knew where I needed to be and I knew where my help was. I knew what leverage to use. I knew on the other side what they were trying to do. You do have to have some things. You have to be able to back pedal and go backwards. You don’t have to great at it, but you have to have some functional ability. But the No. 1 thing is the physicality. You can get caught up in all the measurables—40 yard dash, broad jump, shuttle. It boils down to are they physical and are they relentless? Are they playing with passion?

[get louder at lambeau]

Seems strange that Reed could do so well at the 10 yard split time if he's not explosive. He obviously gets up to speed after a few steps better than most, but his first step doesn't launch him well in the jump measurements. Short legs maybe?

[3irty1]

So you are downgrading his status as somebody equivalent to Frank Zombo because of his jump ? That seems like you are using a small amount of the overall data on this player to equate him with somebody not drafted. Likewise, I could use some stats to claim his greatness. Brooks Reed had the fastest 10-yard split at the Combine out of all the defensive linemen, and I'm sure we can all agree that time is an important factor in looking at his ability as a pass rusher. His 1.54 was only 0.05 slower than Clay Matthews' amazing time.

Does it matter if he was the best DE on his team ? Was Clay Matthews the best LB for USC ? just saying............

Not saying he's going to be a star, but if a team nabbed him in round one or two I think they are getting a very worthy prospect with a lot more upside than Frank Zombo.

And looking at Kevin Green's quote..........that describes Reed

You don’t have to be the greatest athlete. I’m talking from experience. I was not the most athletic outside linebacker to play. But I was physical. I was hard-nosed. I had a motor. And I was smart. I studied. I knew where I needed to be and I knew where my help was. I knew what leverage to use. I knew on the other side what they were trying to do. You do have to have some things. You have to be able to back pedal and go backwards. You don’t have to great at it, but you have to have some functional ability. But the No. 1 thing is the physicality. You can get caught up in all the measurables—40 yard dash, broad jump, shuttle. It boils down to are they physical and are they relentless? Are they playing with passion?

First off, a few of the outside linebackers taken in the first couple rounds of this draft will not amount to Frank Zombo. Zombo isn't spectacular but he doesn't have any glaring weaknesses and will be very tough to keep out of the lineup.

Secondly, those jump numbers aren't just disappointing. For me they are deal breaking. You've obviously fallen in love with Reed, and maybe you're right and he'll be a star but I'm a big skeptic. Clay wasn't the best LB at USC but a prospect is of course a sum of their parts. Clay was a better athlete, much more explosive, had an equal motor, could already cover and had fantastic COD ability. His workouts ruled. He was also over a year younger when he came out.

Just look at Reeds game and who does he compare to? In reality the comparisons to clay end with the hair. Reed will win in the NFL with technique and motor because he won't have the explosion or bend to dominate the edge. The guys that have succeeded in his image are guys like Aaron Kampman and Tamba Hali. In other words, Reed should be a mid round project because he'll probably take a while to catch on.

[Bretsky]

There are a few obvious points I get out of this

You think Frank Zombo is way way better than I do and I hope you are right since he's on Green Bay.
I view him as a serviceable backup who can do alright if surrounded by a ton of talent.
I don't view him as being tough to keep out of the starting lineup.

I do agree there will be picks in the first couple rounds who will bust and be far worse than Zombo

You'll never find me arguing Reed is going to be a star; I think he'd be a good fit in our scheme and far better than Zombo IMO

[3irty1]

I've got my heart set on Justin Houston, if not him then I hope we can nab Dontay Moch at 64 or 96. Both of them are a completely different look than Zombo.

[Bretsky]

I'm not sure where Houston will go now that it's confirmed he failed the drug test. Many feel like he'd go top 20 and now most think he's out of round one. Most are projecting Moch to go top 45...........what a great year to trade down from that 32 spot, get about the same player, and pick up an extra pick

[RashanGary]

There are a handful of DT's who we could take too. Some are shortish, but McGinn has 13 DT's in his top 100, by far the most.

1st round picks maybe. . . (and some of these guys aren't perfect fits with height, but pass rush and run stopping is more important that height anyway)

Liuget
Wilkerson
Austin
Paea

Wilkerson and Austin have been projected to us. Paea and Liuget not really because they're shorter, but damn, those guys have some good things said about them. TT is known for the shocker pick.

[Smidgeon]

Is Ayers worth it? Will he last to #32?

[packrulz]

I voted Reed. For the record TT has drafted a lot of offensive lineman the past few years, Lang, Campbell, Newhouse, and McDonald to name a few are waiting in the wings for their shot, I'd like to give them a chance to see what we've got there. M3 reportedly was very pleased with both Newhouse and McDonald's development last year. Besides, look at all the teams that passed on Matthews, including "Hoody", Reed could end up being a steal, give me a hard worker over a workout warrior any day.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Reed racked up many of his sacks during much weaker competition. How will that translate to the NFL? I'm not sure, but that's something I've always looked for in prospects.

edit: I don't even know why I brought this up. I sometimes forget most of you are Big10(12?) fans and are used to weaker competition.