Rate the 2008 draft

[ThunderDan]

Here are the highlights of that game with your pic of Finley. Unfortunately they are more Vick than Finley or Jennings.
Watch Jennings at 2:45. Jennings on one side, Finley and two WRs on the other side, and Jennings draws a CB and a safety, beats them both deep for a TD. They weren't using the safety to help out on Finley there. He was over Jennings. Finley is single covered by the MLB after getting bumped and released at the line.-

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010091210/2010/REG1/packers@eagles/watch

Next game, Bills. Finley beats #90, a FORMER DEFENSIVE END, man to man for a 32 yard catch. The announcer says, "Might as well put a nose tackle on him." Is that how you "focus on stopping" someone?-

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010091901/2010/REG2/bills@packers/watch

Teams obviously want to stop all our guys, especially Jennings and Finley. They are both weapons. so are Jordy, Jones, and Driver. They can't stop them all, so they have to choose their poison. If I'm going against the Packers, stopping Jennings is job 1. Finley is a close 2nd. Either way, as an opposing DC, you are probably screwed.

Sorry GLL, but I can't draw that conclusion from that angle on the GJ touchdown against the Eagles. To me you could almost argue that the safety didn't drop back far enough because he was afraid of Finley getting a release and running free across the middle of the field. That put him 5 yards out of postion and he was no where near the play at the end. If the safety was truely in coverage over the top he wouldn't have been beaten by that much.

[pbmax]

Sorry GLL, but I can't draw that conclusion from that angle on the GJ touchdown against the Eagles. To me you could almost argue that the safety didn't drop back far enough because he was afraid of Finley getting a release and running free across the middle of the field. That put him 5 yards out of postion and he was no where near the play at the end. If the safety was truely in coverage over the top he wouldn't have been beaten by that much.

That wasn't double coverage on Jennings, it was 2 deep safeties. Jennings was covered by a single man on the LOS. Finley stayed in to block (if I am seeing him on the right side next to Tausch) and then ran a shallow route.

And I do not buy the Finley gets hurt and the ball gets spread around theory. Finley was featured early, but then it was Driver until he got nicked up. Then it was Jennings. I would bet Jennings was targeted late in the season as often as Finley was early in the season.

It took a while for the offense to adjust to no run game and then no Finley. But while Finley was in the lineup (4 complete games) the Packers averaged 26.25 points per game. Without him (11 complete) they averaged 24.45.

[get louder at lambeau]

That wasn't double coverage on Jennings, it was 2 deep safeties. Jennings was covered by a single man on the LOS. Finley stayed in to block (if I am seeing him on the right side next to Tausch) and then ran a shallow route.

Yep. But he was the only receiver on that side of the field, with a CB and a deep safety. Finley, Driver, Jones, and Brandon Jackson were ALL on the other side of center. When the ball was released, the only Eagle anywhere near Finley was the MLB, while Jennings got deep on the CB and one of the 2 deep safeties.

Brandon was saying that they were keying on Finley, and keeping an extra safety on him. Not on that play. The safety might have taken a false step or hesitated because of Finley, as Thunder Dan pointed out as possible above. Can't really say for sure what the safety did from that camera angle either way. He's not the first deep safety Jennings got behind though. I CAN say for sure that the only guy anywhere near Finley was the MLB, just like in most of his highlights, where it's him and one LB.

[sharpe1027]

Yep. But he was the only receiver on that side of the field, with a CB and a deep safety. Finley, Driver, Jones, and Brandon Jackson were ALL on the other side of center. When the ball was released, the only Eagle anywhere near Finley was the MLB, while Jennings got deep on the CB and one of the 2 deep safeties.

Brandon was saying that they were keying on Finley, and keeping an extra safety on him. Not on that play. The safety might have taken a false step or hesitated because of Finley, as Thunder Dan pointed out as possible above. Can't really say for sure what the safety did from that camera angle either way. He's not the first deep safety Jennings got behind though. I CAN say for sure that the only guy anywhere near Finley was the MLB, just like in most of his highlights, where it's him and one LB.

If you watch the clip, the safety is turned inside and looking toward the middle of the field. There's little doubt that he was watching for someone other than Jennings down the middle first. His first responsibility was not to Jennings..or he blew his responsibility.

[mraynrand]

That wasn't double coverage on Jennings, it was 2 deep safeties. Jennings was covered by a single man on the LOS. Finley stayed in to block (if I am seeing him on the right side next to Tausch) and then ran a shallow route.

And I do not buy the Finley gets hurt and the ball gets spread around theory. Finley was featured early, but then it was Driver until he got nicked up. Then it was Jennings. I would bet Jennings was targeted late in the season as often as Finley was early in the season.

It took a while for the offense to adjust to no run game and then no Finley. But while Finley was in the lineup (4 complete games) the Packers averaged 26.25 points per game. Without him (11 complete) they averaged 24.45.

If the Packers aren't scoring 1.8 more points per game next year, I'm going to dig up that Bishop thread again, just to taunt you.

[get louder at lambeau]

If you watch the clip, the safety is turned inside and looking toward the middle of the field. There's little doubt that he was watching for someone other than Jennings down the middle first. His first responsibility was not to Jennings..or he blew his responsibility.

Typically in cover 2 that guy's responsibility is whichever receiver gets deepest on his side of the field. That would be Jennings in this case. Nate Allen is not even close to being the first, or the best, deep safety that Greg Jennings has run by for a TD.

I would think that he's turned inside because 4 of the 5 eligible receivers are on the opposite side of the field. They want to get the D to overplay that side, obviously. That's why they put everyone else on one side and throw to the only guy on the other side.

You can't set it up as EITHER Jennings wasn't his guy OR he blew his responsibility. He DID blow his responsibility, either way. It's not like he was anywhere near any other receiver. If Finley or anyone else was his responsibility, they would have to at least be within 15 yards of him for him to have not blown that responsibility, right? So if his responsibility was something other than normal deep cover 2, he blew his responsibility even worse. When he comes back into the screen, he is deeper than Jennings, as he should be, but only by about half a yard, and he doesn't have the angle to catch him. He is a full 15 yards away from any other Packer.

[sharpe1027]

Typically in cover 2 that guy's responsibility is whichever receiver gets deepest on his side of the field. That would be Jennings in this case. Nate Allen is not even close to being the first, or the best, deep safety that Greg Jennings has run by for a TD.

I would think that he's turned inside because 4 of the 5 eligible receivers are on the opposite side of the field. They want to get the D to overplay that side, obviously. That's why they put everyone else on one side and throw to the only guy on the other side.

You can't set it up as EITHER Jennings wasn't his guy OR he blew his responsibility. He DID blow his responsibility, either way. It's not like he was anywhere near any other receiver. If Finley or anyone else was his responsibility, they would have to at least be within 15 yards of him for him to have not blown that responsibility, right? So if his responsibility was something other than normal deep cover 2, he blew his responsibility even worse. When he comes back into the screen, he is deeper than Jennings, as he should be, but only by about half a yard, and he doesn't have the angle to catch him. He is a full 15 yards away from any other Packer.

How about I set it up like this: the safety was more concerned about someone other than Jennings at the snap of the ball. He turned inside and made several steps toward the middle. If he was flat out doubling Jennings, that would never have happened. As PB said, it looked like cover 2. Either way, the way it looks to me, he was concerned about somebody in the middle of the field. Its not too much of a stretch to think that Finley was part of that concern. Who else would he have been worried about enough to pay attention to instead of/before Jennings?

[mraynrand]

Now this thread is getting into the territory I like. Where is Bobble so I can argue with him about how much the Safety's head was turned toward Jennings or Finley?

[get louder at lambeau]

How about I set it up like this: the safety was more concerned about someone other than Jennings at the snap of the ball. He turned inside and made several steps toward the middle. If he was flat out doubling Jennings, that would never have happened. As PB said, it looked like cover 2. Either way, the way it looks to me, he was concerned about somebody in the middle of the field. Its not too much of a stretch to think that Finley was part of that concern. Who else would he have been worried about enough to pay attention to instead of/before Jennings?

The offensive sets are designed to confuse those guys into taking an extra step or two and then taking advantage of them. At the snap of the ball, 4 eligible guys were to the other side, with only one on his side. Of course he's gonna be concerned about crossing routes and whatnot developing underneath him. He also needed to be turned that way to be able to see where the QB was looking. That doesn't change the basic responsibility of staying deeper than the deepest, which was Jennings. That's the only guy who got into his zone, and he and the CB both underestimated Jennings' speed. McCarthy was trying to set him up, and it worked.

[pbmax]

Now this thread is getting into the territory I like. Where is Bobble so I can argue with him about how much the Safety's head was turned toward Jennings or Finley?

If you can whittle the HD video down to something below 1 Terabyte, perhaps we can see for ourselves.

[mraynrand]

If you can whittle the HD video down to something below 1 Terabyte, perhaps we can see for ourselves.

I eventually got that figured out, but not before destroying/deleting several games....

[Deputy Nutz]

fucking ridiculous.

[mraynrand]

fucking ridiculous.

I agree. I'd rather reproduce by fission.

[sharpe1027]

The offensive sets are designed to confuse those guys into taking an extra step or two and then taking advantage of them. At the snap of the ball, 4 eligible guys were to the other side, with only one on his side. Of course he's gonna be concerned about crossing routes and whatnot developing underneath him. He also needed to be turned that way to be able to see where the QB was looking. That doesn't change the basic responsibility of staying deeper than the deepest, which was Jennings. That's the only guy who got into his zone, and he and the CB both underestimated Jennings' speed. McCarthy was trying to set him up, and it worked.

I guess you can see what you want from the video, and we are boring other posters by discussing actual football plays, formations and coverages. Regardless, there are comments by players, sports writers and coaches that say that Philly consistently doubled and even tripled Finley.

[mraynrand]

I guess you can see what you want from the video, and we are boring other posters by discussing actual football plays, formations and coverages. Regardless, there are comments by players, sports writers and coaches that say that Philly consistently doubled and even tripled Finley.

Why should you care about other posters? Get in there and fight, gaddamit!