Jermichael Finley's recent tweet and TT drafting of 2 TE's

[Zool]

Holy fuck people. Didnt everyone love Finley through week 4 last year? What's happened between then and now?

God I hate the offseason.

[prime311]

How about this one? When you talk about elite, game changing Tight Ends of the last 10-15 year 2 stick out. Antonio Gates and Tony Gonzalez. Neither have even been to the Super Bowl. Hell Gonzalez has never even won a playoff game. What else do these 2 guys have in common? When they dominate the receivers become an afterthought. You could say the same thing about Todd Heap and Jeremy Shockey during their peaks. Now there are a handful of 2nd tier Tight Ends that are solid-good and long time veterans. Heath Miller and Dallas Clark are both Super Bowl winners. Shockey didnt get to the Super Bowl until he was on decline as a role player on NO. Other top Tight Ends that haven't seen a Super Bowl are Alge Crumpler and Chris Cooley. Having a good pass catching Tight End is an unnecessary luxury, and I'd go so far as to say that having a stats heavy tight end is a negative because it takes opportunities away from your wide receivers. You have to go back to Shannon Sharpe to find a TE that was truly a impact player that didn't detract from the offense around him, and thats because he was a complete player. The only guy that comes close to being a complete tight end but has never been to a super bowl is Jason Witten.

Now you see the same thing on the Packers. Beginning of 2010 the Packers featured Finley prominently. Yet the offense struggled with inconsistency. As the year progressed and after Finley went down, the Packers seemed to rediscover Greg Jennings and their big receiver packages. Having an elite tight end just doesn't matter in the end. All you need is a solid tight end that understands their role and doesn't take away opportunities from the other downfield receivers.

[SkinBasket]

Holy fuck people. Didnt everyone love Finley through week 4 last year? What's happened between then and now?

The season was also over after we lost to Atlanta, then heaven was dead after we lost to Detroit. Some things are healed by time, others are deteriorated. Like brains.

[mraynrand]

Holy fuck people. Didnt everyone love Finley through week 4 last year? What's happened between then and now?

God I hate the offseason.

A few tweets and some Chinese food ordered from an igloo and your whole rep is shot, apparently. I can't wait to see Finley back on the field, assuming of course there is a field to play on...

[prime311]

I still love watching Finley play. I just can't stand 2 things:

1. I hate the hype surrounding him. Used properly he is a decoy and should only expect big games versus certain types of defenses. He gives our offense versatility which should lead to better offensive consistency, but this doesnt work when he is being targeted a lot every game.

2. I really hate his attitude. He expects to get 1500+ yards in a season? This is the last thing you want your tight end caring about. See Gonzales and Gates. Big tight end production almost always equates to poor wide receiver production.

[RashanGary]

I think everyone still loves Finely, just think he has a higher than usual chance of going TOcho on us. PB made a good point with him not being the best player on our team and winning the SB without him being humbling. Good point. Another thing we have going is McCarthy. He seems to be an excellent people person and ego manager. I think he could handle one primadonna TE.

It's still something you have to mention with Finley. His personality is part of the package.

No sky is falling, no team is crumbling, although that's a fun way to frame it. We're simply saying, he has some irresponsibility red flags in his recent past and a major knee injury. Both are simply facts, nothing to blow up, exaggerate or cut anyone for.

I know I'm pulling for the guy. Just bought his Jersey in January. I'm one of his biggest fans. I think we're all in agreement that he's a special talent and can't wait to see him play again. The people who think he has a character risk love his talent. The people who think he has no character risk love his talent.

The people who think he has no character risk, just don't mistake anyone else for guaranteeing is implosion. We think it's more likely than average but still not likely. More than likely he dances on the line if acceptable and has a great career. There are a few red flags though, so we're talking about them.

[swede]

I think everyone still loves Finely, just think he has a higher than usual chance of going TOcho on us.

Did you coin that?

Nice.

[Freak Out]

I don't give a damn what he tweets about as long as he shows up to play.

[RashanGary]

Did you coin that?

Nice.

Nah

There is a TOcho show.

[swede]

Nah

There is a TOcho show.

Still...it is the wonderful power of language to say what needs to be said succinctly when someone declares that a formerly well-behaved receiver has gone TOcho.

[RashanGary]

I don't give a damn what he tweets about as long as he shows up to play.

Nobodies worried about his tweets. It's not showing up to meetings, being late for meetings, lying to coaches (telling them what they want to hear.)

In theory, having a piece of shit in your workplace should be pleasant and fun if he's performing, but in reality, one stinky terd kind of ruins the experience even if it is acting as the best book end you've ever had at your cube.

If the guy is a disingenuous liar, a sneak, irresponsible and arrogant. . . . it can have more of an impact than we might think.


I'm not saying he is anything, he just shows signs. I'm hoping it works out. I think it has a good chance of working out. I just can't bury my head in the sand and pretend I don't see the red flags. They're there, but time will tell if they get worse, mellow down or stay the same.

[RashanGary]

Still...it is the wonderful power of language to say what needs to be said succinctly when someone declares that a formerly well-behaved receiver has gone TOcho.

Yeah, it felt good when I wrote it I felt like it was a good tone setter for my counter point to skins sky is falling melodrama.

[HarveyWallbangers]

How about this one? When you talk about elite, game changing Tight Ends of the last 10-15 year 2 stick out. Antonio Gates and Tony Gonzalez. Neither have even been to the Super Bowl. Hell Gonzalez has never even won a playoff game. What else do these 2 guys have in common? When they dominate the receivers become an afterthought. You could say the same thing about Todd Heap and Jeremy Shockey during their peaks. Now there are a handful of 2nd tier Tight Ends that are solid-good and long time veterans. Heath Miller and Dallas Clark are both Super Bowl winners.

Dallas Clark is an elite TE. I think this is a silly correlation. Shannon Sharpe and Mark Bavaro have Super Bowl rings. I'd prefer we keep our elite talent at all positions, and see where the chips fall. Yes, Rodgers did go to Finley a tad much early last year, but it's hard to argue with the results. Finley was ridiculously productive per target. However, Driver is slowing down and Jones is likely gone. We are going to need Finley to get back to where he was at the beginning of last year.

[get louder at lambeau]

Except that in the chronology of both TO and Ochocinco, each started off relatively harmless and then went south. They were possibly the best player on the team, but with fading franchises, troubles with the League, contract squabbles, QBs injured or limited, etc. Finley seems headed in the opposite direction. Everything is on the uptick except his health. And as good as he is, he is not the best player on the team (not yet anyway).

Think about his year. Without him, the team won a Super Bowl. A bit more humbling than the accommodating treatment the 49ers and Bengals gave their prima donnas.

If his worst offenses going forward are similar to complaining about team picture timing (which puts him on par with Barnett - whose lead he seemed to follow), I am really unconcerned. While Barnett may not have been everything you ever wanted in a MLB, he was a good teammate and fit for Green Bay even if he wasn't low key like most of his teammates.

Like a lot of modern athletes, he seems to want to succeed across the board, be a good teammate, popular, perhaps cash in on commercials, TV, etc. And while that kind of diversity of priorities would get you docked in draft evaluations, its makes for a pretty motivated and conscientious teammate. Similar to the OLB with a shampoo deal.

So how do you know that you aren't just falling for the little lying trick that he has admitted to using since being a Packer?-

"I'm just one of those people who doesn't tell everybody what I'm doing, so I just tell them what they want to hear," he said.

His last problem behavior noted in that article was the night before the playoff game just over a year ago. Is it that he hasn't had any reported problems since then, except the twitter whining? Because I don't think any of us knew about a lot of the issues mentioned in that article before the article came out, so who knows if there have been any more recent minor problems with him?

If he has stayed out of trouble since January of last year, how amazing is that when he spent half that time recovering from two knee surgeries? How much trouble can you get in when you don't have to show up for work and you have a central line I.V. in your neck?

I'm just being the devil's advocate to the whole "he has matured" thing that people so badly want to believe. He wasn't anywhere NEAR mature as of just over a year ago. People don't usually just change overnight. Almost never. Maybe never. He might be maturing, or he might not be the kind of guy who ever really matures. I'm not buying the "Old Finley and New Finley" shit for a second. If we're lucky, he'll be the same Finley he ever was, but slightly more mature and professional as each year goes by.

[Bretsky]

Um, Walker?

that was kind of a trap question.........I thought somebody might note Walker....but isn't Finley still a few yrs younger than JW ? Meaning, more upside. I really liked JW, but I see Superstar power in Finley. Never thoght JW could be the best at his position and that may almost be possilble with Finley