Better GM...Thompson or Wolf

[bobblehead]

Ok, people complained about a lack of topics and Patler suggested one close to my heart so here goes.

I vote TT. To make it even more controversial I don't honestly think its that close. I have felt this way for a long time, but had to bite my tongue, much like I was sick of Brett Favre back in 2004 but had to wait for things to play out.

TT built the Seahawks into the team that went to the Superbowl (only to have the franchise take a dump after he left) and he has now built the packers into a Superbowl champion that is primed for multiple opportunities.

Wolf had the benefit of being able to buy a lot of proven veterans to vault his team to primetime, whereas TT hasn't had that many opportunities in todays FA market. Wolfs prize FA catch was the greatest DE of all time, and everyone KNEW he was the greatest when we signed him. TT's prize FA catch was a CB who was considered washed up as a CB and ready to be moved to safety.

Parallels and similarities are many. TT's first move as GM was drafting a franchise QB then hiring a westcoast coach who was hungry. Wolfs was hiring a hungry westcoast coach and then trading for a franchise QB.

Wolf struggled to assemble a solid line, whiffing on 2 LT's early on. TT struggled to assemble a solid line whiffing on a handful of guards, but when he drafts early he seems to have better success than Wolf did.

Both GM's paid a lot of attention to the defense and talked about the importance and both eventually put a marquee product on the field.

The main reason I give TT the edge is his ability to find gems in undrafted FA's, and trades. Guys like Tramon, Shields, Grant were all guys that no one really desired but all have turned into exceptional players.

I also give the nod to TT for constantly stressing chemistry and not taking in the NFL's problem children like Andre Rison and Keith Jackson.

I'll leave it at that and open up the discussion to my dysfunctional rat family.

[red]

it really hurts my pride to say this, but i agree that right now TT looks like the better GM. the team looks like a force to be reckoned with for along time, and its a team entirely built by him with very few exceptions.

wolf put together one of the best teams of all time (best offense and best defense in the nfl), but it got old and he failed to maintain it.

and as far as drafting, its not even close, TT just seems to have a knack for it with very few flops. not only did TT assemble a super bowl winner, he had to rebuild that team during the season with other teams cast offs and still made it all work

and 2 or 3 years ago, i would be first in line to bash TT

[sharpe1027]

I see it as too close to call.

I don't think you can say that Wolf had it easier because free agency was different. There were still 32 other teams playing by the same free agency rules. Also, many people thought the Packers were going to be a dynasty after they won with Favre. Therefore, don't think it would be fair to give TT credit for the future since nobody really knows.

In the end, both have one SB win. Wolf took over a team that was, outside of the Cardiac Pack year, consistently crappy and NFL players avoided it like the plague. TT took over an aging roster with serious salary cap issues.

[vince]

Notwithstanding sharpe's cautions against projecting the future, I think Thompson will ultimately prove to be a better GM, so I guess that means I think he's a better GM now. All the pieces appear to be there, and that's really the GM's job. Now it's up to the players and coaches. Thompson's strong convictions and ability to stick to his guns in the face of strong criticism and pressure have been very impressive IMO.

Realistically, I'd say Sherrod effectively manning the left side for the next decade will go a long way toward completing Thompson's legacy. Rodgers having a shortened career or not fulfilling his promise as a premier QB due to getting hit too much would obviously drop Thompson's stock.

[KYPack]

I'd give the slight edge to TT.

Before last season, it would've been the Wolfman.

Wolf had a tendency to hold grudges, I think from his days at the feet of Al Davis.

I always felt Wolf got better NFL street FA's. Until last season, that is. Then TT pulled in Walden, Green, Francois, and some others. TT simply likes to go with the young guys with high ceilings as opposed to vets who are known quantities.

I was (and am) pissed at Wolf for participating in the farce of naming Sherman as HC/GM. That set us back and was done purely to piss off Holmgren.

TT is Wolf's superior in organization building. Our scouting staff is the envy of 31 teams.

[red]

the one big difference is the character issue, like bobble mentioned.

wolf would draft or go after guys that had talent but also came with character concerns, or players with big egos

you can go back and look at almost all of TT's draft pick and i promise you that in the scouting report you'll see that the guy was a leader and a team player, with a high character

wolf put together a roster full of good players while TT seems to have put together a good cohesive single unit

[Joemailman]

TT has a good chance of surpassing Wolf, but he hasn't done it yet. I think judging Wolf has to take into account what he inherited. Green Bay was the bottom of the barrel as far as the NFL goes. When he traded a 1st round pick for Favre (seemed like a slightly crazy idea at the time), and convinced White to come here, that transformed this franchise in a way that TT didn't have to do. The Packers hadn't had a losing season in 13 years when TT took over. That said, TT has drafted better in the early rounds than Wolf, and has more impact players than Wolf had. Therefore, his chances of surpassing Wolf are very good.

[HarveyWallbangers]

TT has a good chance of surpassing Wolf, but he hasn't done it yet. I think judging Wolf has to take into account what he inherited. Green Bay was the bottom of the barrel as far as the NFL goes. When he traded a 1st round pick for Favre (seemed like a slightly crazy idea at the time), and convinced White to come here, that transformed this franchise in a way that TT didn't have to do. The Packers hadn't had a losing season in 13 years when TT took over. That said, TT has drafted better in the early rounds than Wolf, and has more impact players than Wolf had. Therefore, his chances of surpassing Wolf are very good.

+1

[Deputy Nutz]

I think Wolf built his team to win a Super Bowl in 1996 and 1997 and he failed to refill the talent tank during and after the Super Bowl run. He might have been burnt out, he had his internal struggles with Holmgren who left after the 1998 season. But I also look at where Wolf started from. He had jack shit. He had a great wide receiver and a mediocre offensive line. Nothing on defense, and a turnstyle at QB.

Ted Thompson had salary cap issues, and a depleted roster, but he still had a hall of fame QB, Clifton and Tauscher as book end tackles, an all pro running back, and a below average defense.

Wolf never had a losing season as GM, the worst was an 8-8 season, Thompson had two.

I thought Wolf should have done more to give Favre weapons after the 1997 season, where as TT has given Rodgers a high performance offense around him. Jennings, Murphy(injured), Nelson were all second round picks, along with Jones as a 3rd rounder. TT has also recognized positions of need before the bottom drops out.

Right now TT is in position with a younger team to repeat and win more championships then Wolf's teams after 1997. Wolf won by recuiting and trading for veteran players, especially on defense. Reggie White, Santana Dotson, Sean Jones, Seth Joyner, Eugene Robinson, Keith Jackson, Andre Rison, Desmond Howard, Don Beebe.

Totally different ways of creating a roster, but at this point with the same result one Super Bowl. I would imagine TT will have more chances for his team to win another Super Bowl, but you can't count your chickens, ala the Favre years after 1997.

[Deputy Nutz]

I think Wolf built his team to win a Super Bowl in 1996 and 1997 and he failed to refill the talent tank during and after the Super Bowl run. He might have been burnt out, he had his internal struggles with Holmgren who left after the 1998 season. But I also look at where Wolf started from. He had jack shit. He had a great wide receiver and a mediocre offensive line. Nothing on defense, and a turnstyle at QB.

Ted Thompson had salary cap issues, and a depleted roster, but he still had a hall of fame QB, Clifton and Tauscher as book end tackles, an all pro running back, and a below average defense.

Wolf never had a losing season as GM, the worst was an 8-8 season, Thompson had two.

I thought Wolf should have done more to give Favre weapons after the 1997 season, where as TT has given Rodgers a high performance offense around him. Jennings, Murphy(injured), Nelson were all second round picks, along with Jones as a 3rd rounder. TT has also recognized positions of need before the bottom drops out.

Right now TT is in position with a younger team to repeat and win more championships then Wolf's teams after 1997. Wolf won by recuiting and trading for veteran players, especially on defense. Reggie White, Santana Dotson, Sean Jones, Seth Joyner, Eugene Robinson, Keith Jackson, Andre Rison, Desmond Howard, Don Beebe.

Totally different ways of creating a roster, but at this point with the same result one Super Bowl. I would imagine TT will have more chances for his team to win another Super Bowl, but you can't count your chickens, ala the Favre years after 1997.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Wolf never had a losing season as GM, the worst was an 8-8 season, Thompson had two.

I give Wolf full credit for the 4-12 season. He left Thompson with major salary cap woes--which didn't allow him to turn over a old, overrated roster. He knew when to get out, and he let it fall on somebody else. That leaves Wolf with one 4-12 season and Thompson one 6-10 season. That 6-10 season was an extraordinary chain of events. Distractions galore, First year starter at QB who had a ton of pressure, and a bunch of close losses (blame the QB at times, but mostly blame the defense and kicker). Thompson has a couple of NFC championship appearances and a Super Bowl title after 6 years. If he keeps up the pace, he'll pass Wolf easily. As it stands now, I give the edge to Wolf. It all likely depends on the health of Aaron Rodgers. I have more faith already in Thompson to put people around a future Hall of Fame QB (if he stays health) than I did with Wolf. That's saying a lot--because Wolf was an excellent GM.

[Smeefers]

Red had it right about the talent level that's for sure. The roster Wolf put together during the hay day was far far superior to anything that TT will ever throw together IMO. We were dominant in ways rarely seen through the league. We'd blow through teams 35 to 7 without even breaking a sweat. I agree with a majority of the posters here that TT will be able to bring more championships to the Pack which I think in the end is what we judge everyone on.

[sharpe1027]

Notwithstanding sharpe's cautions against projecting the future, I think Thompson will ultimately prove to be a better GM, so I guess that means I think he's a better GM now. All the pieces appear to be there, and that's really the GM's job. Now it's up to the players and coaches. Thompson's strong convictions and ability to stick to his guns in the face of strong criticism and pressure have been very impressive IMO.

Realistically, I'd say Sherrod effectively manning the left side for the next decade will go a long way toward completing Thompson's legacy. Rodgers having a shortened career or not fulfilling his promise as a premier QB due to getting hit too much would obviously drop Thompson's stock.

I tend to agree agree. I also thought that the 96 SB was going to be the first in a string of SBs. I don't trust my fortune telling abilities anymore.

[KYPack]

I give Wolf full credit for the 4-12 season. He left Thompson with major salary cap woes--which didn't allow him to turn over a old, overrated roster. He knew when to get out, and he let it fall on somebody else. That leaves Wolf with one 4-12 season and Thompson one 6-10 season. That 6-10 season was an extraordinary chain of events. Distractions galore, First year starter at QB who had a ton of pressure, and a bunch of close losses (blame the QB at times, but mostly blame the defense and kicker). Thompson has a couple of NFC championship appearances and a Super Bowl title after 6 years. If he keeps up the pace, he'll pass Wolf easily. As it stands now, I give the edge to Wolf. It all likely depends on the health of Aaron Rodgers. I have more faith already in Thompson to put people around a future Hall of Fame QB (if he stays health) than I did with Wolf. That's saying a lot--because Wolf was an excellent GM.

Point of order, Harv.

Wouldn't the Sherman administration get the blame for TT's cap woes. Or are you blaming Sherman as the "Son of the Wolfman"?

[HarveyWallbangers]

You are right, Colonel. I thankfully forgot about Sherman's 2-3 year run as GM. Give Wolf 0 losing seasons. He did have four 9-7 and one 8-8 season amongst his 10 in Green Bay. About half the time he had around a .500 team. He did turn over a terrible roster though, and his best teams were better than Thompson's best teams (so far). I think Thompson will be able to maintain a championship caliber team longer though, but until that happens it's just conjecture. Give Wolf the edge now, but Thompson has at least a decent chance of surpassing him.