Partial: Do you still think Rodgers isn't the guy to lead the Packers to the SB?

[bobblehead]

Nope. Brady didn't even make the Super Bowl much less win MVP. He didn't even make it to the AFC Championship game. Got beat by the Jets no less. Not even close to number 1. It goes Rodgers, Rapistburger (gag) and on from there. With Rodgers number 1.

Brady: 16 16 324 492 65.9 3,900 7.9 36 4 25 175 111.0 31 30 1.0 1 3 1

36 TD's 4 Ints = #1 in my book

[Joemailman]

And he's been sick for a long time. He was good for his first 1 1/2 years. He's been sick since about the midway point of last year. 30 TDs and 7 picks last year. 86 TDs vs. 31 interceptions, 65%, 8+ yards/attempt, over 4000 yards/year on average. Not to mention his escapability and rushing ability--which is the best amongst the elite QBs not named Vick.

Actually, the 30-7 was in 2009. 2 years in a row, he's been the league's best QB in the 2nd half of the season and playoffs. 43 TD's and 7 INT's in 20 games. he just needs a little more consistency in the 1st half of the season to move to the top. As is, I think he's probably #4.

[SkinBasket]

How come no one's talking about the game changer?

Vince Young.

[Tarlam!]

How come no one's talking about the game changer?

Vince Young.

I bet you enjoy catching flys and pulling out their wings as a youngster?

[RashanGary]

Brady is the only guy I'd not think twice about taking over him for one season. Manning probably. Brees is a tossup. He's better than the rest. Long-term, I wouldn't take any QB over him.

In the playoffs, Rodgers was better than any of them. Whether he's going to do it next year or not is up for debate. Obviously the guys ahead of him have the fact that they've proven it over time on their side. There is certainly credit that needs to get paid to past accomplishments, but to say Brady is the same QB today at age 34 and Manning is the same now at age 35 as they were 5 years ago when they were breaking records isn't necessarily true. They are the more accomplished QBs, but are they better today, in their current physical state? I think there is a debate on that. I'm not saying AR is #1, but I'm not saying he's not either.

When it mattered most, Rodgers was better than Brady, Manning or Brees. He was the best player in football. I don't think many NFL experts would disagree with that.

Now let's see if he can do it again.

But that's the argument. The argument for Rodgers being #1 is because he was #1 when it mattered most last year. Because he's on the way up as those guys are on the way down. It's jot just because he won the SB, but because he was a more effective, dominant QB than anyone else.

Again, where exactly he falls, who exactly helps their team most now is a debate, but IMO Rodgers is in it.

I'd go Brady, Manning, Brees and Rodgers and I wouldn't be able to say who's best. I don't think I have the knowledge of their systems, what they're asked to do, how tough they are to defend to split those hairs, but with my knowledge, AR is in the conversation for best QB in the league and best player in the league.

[RashanGary]

Favre, Aikman, Brady, Montana, Brees, Rodgers, Rothlisberger. . . . These guys didn't win their championships in their mid 30's. There is something to being the best that coincides with being young and strong. Most championship QB's are between 25 and 30 it seems. AR is in his prime. The others aren't. Best careers, AR isn't even in the conversation. Best today. He sure as fuck is. I could come up with a strong argument for him being the best, but there would be holes in it and we'd go round and round with no resolution. Perception gives past accomplishments too much weight in current reality. But, perception is not reality and often times doesn't line up with results. That could be what's happening here.

There was a time people said the Packers have been young the last 3 years, they've been pinching pennies the last 3 years. It is what has been and what will be. Past = future. Now we know the Packers are near the middle of hte league in age and near the top of the league in salary and their reigning champs. Past did not = future. And there were many people who saw this coming because they had this magic little thing I call perspective. It's a hard thing to grasp. Some can't and never will, but it's there and despite those who throw their hands in the air and say there is no way to predict the future with decent accuracy, there are those who do it every day. They do it with context and perspective beyond common thought. They're leaders, visionaries.

Common perception says brady is better today. It might not be reality. And those who throw their hands up in the air, site past, use facts. . . . . There is something to intuition and feel. Those with it can get over on those without it.

My evidence is more in patterns and non linear projections. Those who only see things linear, only see the past, can't see the hints toward what's to come. . . They'll have their arguements and they'll always win them because the flock of regulars will be there to pat their backs. But the visionaries will be right over time and when it happens, everyone will pretend they saw it all along. That's life.

Imagination, intuition, vision, faith. They're real. You can't touch them, can't prove them, but they often times line up with the energy of the world. Maybe it's the god's flow, natures flow, just the flow of what is. . . . But there is something to what cannot be touched that has a funny way of coinciding with what's to come. Just gotta let go to feel it.

[RashanGary]

woo hoo, now this is the way I remember this place, haha.

[KYPack]

How come no one's talking about the game changer?

Vince Young.

I was waiting for that shoe to hit the floor.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Rodgers is number two. Brady is the reigning MVP, had an amazing season, and has proven he can produce in the postseason so he's number one. Looking at it in terms of longevity, Rodgers is the best QB to have right now. He can pass, scramble, extend plays, read defenses, avoid costly turnovers in crunch time, and is becoming a leader of the team. This is not actually much of a debate for me.

After Brady, Brees is the only guy I can see still above Rodgers, not Manning. Brees is still fairly young and comes to play every week. His stats have been sick the last 3-4 years. Even last year he played great in the playoffs, but his defense failed him. Manning on the other hand seems to fail more often than not once the playoffs start.

The Saints should probably be better on offense with Ingram which is kind of scary. If they get there defense to have a good season I could see the Saints being a hard out once the playoffs start. If the pats lose Mankins, Brady could have a pretty big drop in production. He has almost always had the luxury of having a very strong offensive line. He literally STANDS back there sometimes. If he’s forced to win games with a average or below average line I am pretty sure he wouldn’t put up the numbers Rodgers was able to put up.

At the end of next year I think it will be Rodgers, Brees, Brady, and then Manning in that order.

[Deputy Nutz]

Partial, fuck these jokers. You had an opinion and you defended it and that is important you didn't back down until your opinion was found to be proven false and you admitted it.

[Lurker64]

Partial, fuck these jokers. You had an opinion and you defended it and that is important you didn't back down until your opinion was found to be proven false and you admitted it.

I think it's hard to be broken up about how you were wrong about how you were wrong about your quarterback when he proved you wrong by winning the superbowl. A little good-natured ribbing has to accompany this sort of thing, we can't be that uptight around here. There are things that Partial (or really, anybody) was wrong about that probably shouldn't be dredged up in order to make an example, but things of the order "you know that you were proved wrong when we WON THE SUPERBOWL" are generally in good taste.

The whole labor mess has really cast a pall over this offseason, which should have been much more fun for Packer fans than it has been so far.

[SkinBasket]

I bet you enjoy catching flys and pulling out their wings as a youngster?

Partial is a human being Tarlam!

And no, I wouldn't do that to a fly. They aren't that annoying.

[Joemailman]

I prefer the magnifying glass over an ant on a hot sidewalk on a sunny summer day. Is that wrong?

[Deputy Nutz]

I prefer to pull legs off cats.

[Tarlam!]

You guys crack me up! Nutz, don't invite me to eat chinese in your neihborhood - I know where the legless cats end up!

But I think Lurker hit it. Partial has been very passionate with some of his predictions, so, he's allowed to served a healthy portion of crow - as we all are. Remember my Rugby players are real men thread? I do, unfortunately.