Ryan Grant thinks he’ll be the starter

[bobblehead]

Sharpe was under contract when he made his threat.
Grant was not under contract and simply did not sign the offer on the table until it was more to his liking.
To me, these are direct opposites.

Any player has a right to quit playing any time he wishes. Thats just the way it is. You say "under contract" like quitting isn't an option. Grant wasn't signed, but he was exclusive to the packers for the tender they offered. His only option was identical to sharpe's....not to play.

[wootah]

I don't see BJack being part of this team in the upcoming season. He has made it clear he wants to be 'the guy' and must understand that with the playing time Starks got in the play offs and Grant being back, that's not going to happen here. The drafting of Green IMO was the last nail in the coffin.

[Patler]

Any player has a right to quit playing any time he wishes. Thats just the way it is. You say "under contract" like quitting isn't an option. Grant wasn't signed, but he was exclusive to the packers for the tender they offered. His only option was identical to sharpe's....not to play.

One was in a period of contract negotiation, the other was not. Neither intended to quit. Both wanted to play. One had a signed contract defining the terms under which he had agreed to play. The other had not agreed to terms. I am surprised that you see no difference in the two situations.

A drafted rookie has no option but to sign with the team that drafts him, or not play that year. Should he have to accept whatever the team offers? Grant's situation was more like that of a drafted unsigned player than it was like Sharpe's situation.

[Pugger]

I don't see BJack being part of this team in the upcoming season. He has made it clear he wants to be 'the guy' and must understand that with the playing time Starks got in the play offs and Grant being back, that's not going to happen here. The drafting of Green IMO was the last nail in the coffin.

But poor Jackson showed the entire league that he couldn't be 'the guy' last season after Grant's injury so I can't see another team clammoring for his services as an every down back. He might very well be playing someplace else this season but he won't be 'the guy' for that team either.

[MJZiggy]

I don't know, Pugger. Jackson comes from a SB winning team (that is SO nice to say) and people tend to overvalue those players. He could well wind up sucking someplace as a lead back...

[sharpe1027]

Any player has a right to quit playing any time he wishes. Thats just the way it is. You say "under contract" like quitting isn't an option. Grant wasn't signed, but he was exclusive to the packers for the tender they offered. His only option was identical to sharpe's....not to play.

Sharpe wanted more money for a year in which he was not going to play at all. He demanded to be released if he didn't get the money. He was questionable as to whether or not he would ever play again. He had several years left on his contract.

Grant did not sign his offer because he was asking for a long term contract (rather than demanding to be released).

Hardly the same situation.

[bobblehead]

One was in a period of contract negotiation, the other was not. Neither intended to quit. Both wanted to play. One had a signed contract defining the terms under which he had agreed to play. The other had not agreed to terms. I am surprised that you see no difference in the two situations.

A drafted rookie has no option but to sign with the team that drafts him, or not play that year. Should he have to accept whatever the team offers? Grant's situation was more like that of a drafted unsigned player than it was like Sharpe's situation.

I see it this way Patler. Under the CBA an undrafted player gets the minimum and then has step ladder salary until he reaches RFA or FA. A 6th rounder actually SIGNS a deal just a tad better for 4 years. A first rounder gets a much better one. All are "under contract" in effect. Each can hold out. I don't see what Grant or TWill did as any different than a player who signed a deal coming out (Javon Walker?). I will grant you that guys who are on a second contract are slightly different as they reached FA status and had the option of negotiating leaguewide for the best contract they could get.

[bobblehead]

Sharpe wanted more money for a year in which he was not going to play at all. He demanded to be released if he didn't get the money. He was questionable as to whether or not he would ever play again. He had several years left on his contract.

Grant did not sign his offer because he was asking for a long term contract (rather than demanding to be released).

Hardly the same situation.

I am pretty sure we are having 2 different conversations regarding Sharpe.

[sharpe1027]

I am pretty sure we are having 2 different conversations regarding Sharpe.

Regardless, Grant's situation just don't line up very well to Sterling's.
Your original argument was that Grant could be cut because "sterling sharpe held out back when...the instant he wasn't of use to the team they cut him."

First, there are completely different people in charge of this decision; making your assumption weak even Grant was in the exact same situation.

Second, Sharpe expressly requested that he be released because the Packers would not pay him more money for a year that he was not going to play at all. The Packers did what he asked.

I just do not think that the release Sharpe tells us much of anything about what will happen with Grant.

[Patler]

I see it this way Patler. Under the CBA an undrafted player gets the minimum and then has step ladder salary until he reaches RFA or FA. A 6th rounder actually SIGNS a deal just a tad better for 4 years. A first rounder gets a much better one. All are "under contract" in effect. Each can hold out. I don't see what Grant or TWill did as any different than a player who signed a deal coming out (Javon Walker?). I will grant you that guys who are on a second contract are slightly different as they reached FA status and had the option of negotiating leaguewide for the best contract they could get.

But there is significance to a contract ending, and Grant was on a one year contract. Some undrafted FAs sign two year contracts, and often get a small bonus, or a slightly better second year salary for doing it. I think the Packers did that with McDonald last year. The team gets the advantage of certainty for his second year, and the player gets a little money up front. The team's risk is wasting a small bonus if the player doesn't pan out, and the player's risk is being very valuable and having to play for peanuts his second year.

By signing a one year contract, the player takes on the risk of injury, the risk that he will perform poorly and have no value, while having gotten nothing up front. The team takes on the risk of the player doing very well and not being willing to sign a minimum wage contract the second year.

To my way of thinking, when a contract is expired, all terms are open for negotiation, and it just comes down to who has the advantage. It worked out very well for Grant that year. I am convinced the Packers made a mistake by not negotiating seriously with Grant in April/May. Had they gotten it done before Favre "unretired" they might have done it cheaper than they did, or maybe even a shorter contract. They were much more aggressive with Williams the following year. Waiting with Grant got them into a PR nightmare with two stars from the previous season.

[Patler]

Sharpe wanted more money for a year in which he was not going to play at all. He demanded to be released if he didn't get the money. He was questionable as to whether or not he would ever play again. He had several years left on his contract.

I think you have your timing mixed up. Sharpe held out and demanded more money before he got hurt. He did it before the first game of the year. He didn't get hurt until the end of that same season. He was perfectly healthy at the time of his holdout, just wanted to redo his contract.

[sharpe1027]

I think you have your timing mixed up. Sharpe held out and demanded more money before he got hurt. He did it before the first game of the year. He didn't get hurt until the end of that same season. He was perfectly healthy at the time of his holdout, just wanted to redo his contract.

He did both per the article I cited above.

[Patler]

He did both per the article I cited above.

I don't read the article that way. They are referring to the earlier holdout, and the agreement reached because of it. It had an effect on the timing of his release because of the bonus being due in March, but I don't think there were any new demands made by Sharpe, if that's what you meant.

[sharpe1027]

I don't read the article that way. They are referring to the earlier holdout, and the agreement reached because of it. It had an effect on the timing of his release because of the bonus being due in March, but I don't think there were any new demands made by Sharpe, if that's what you meant.

I could be wrong by it says "$200,000 offer for 1995". The 1995 season was after both his holdout and his injury.

*edit*

Also, I have no recollection of him ever asking to be released during the 1994 holdout.

This one clarifies:

http://articles.philly.com/1995-03-01/sports/25698892_1_release-sharpe-bone-graft-surgery

"Sterling Sharpe, the star receiver recovering from neck surgery, was released yesterday by the Green Bay Packers.

The move occurred a day after Sharpe's agent demanded the Packers release the All-Pro or increase their salary offer for 1995.

The Packers offered Sharpe $200,000 while he sits out next season. His contract calls for $3.2 million as part of a six-year deal he signed last season."

[Patler]

I could be wrong by it says "$200,000 offer for 1995". The 1995 season was after both his holdout and his injury.

*edit*

Also, I have no recollection of him ever asking to be released during the 1994 holdout.

This one clarifies:

http://articles.philly.com/1995-03-01/sports/25698892_1_release-sharpe-bone-graft-surgery

"Sterling Sharpe, the star receiver recovering from neck surgery, was released yesterday by the Green Bay Packers.

The move occurred a day after Sharpe's agent demanded the Packers release the All-Pro or increase their salary offer for 1995.

The Packers offered Sharpe $200,000 while he sits out next season. His contract calls for $3.2 million as part of a six-year deal he signed last season."

Boy, I didn't remember that at all!

Sharpe's "big" hold out was before his last season, when he walked out on the team just before the first game. I guess they didn't like the token salary offered by the Packers to hold a spot for him after he was hurt. I think everyone must have known his return was unlikely.

Hard to believe it was that long ago already.